From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat May 31 15:13:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA00393; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:13:44 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA21316 for linux-list; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:13:28 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA21311 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:13:21 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA16390 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:13:12 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from uhland (ralf@uhland.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.63]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA13044; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:09:20 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199705312209.AAA13044@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by uhland (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id AAA03419; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:09:16 +0200 Subject: Re: ah... To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:09:15 -2200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199705302125.RAA22822@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at May 30, 97 05:25:28 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 678 Lines: 18 Hi, > Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > One of the fun things with SGI... Long time ago checked two SGI machines > > running different OS versions for reference. In one of them the values > > for SOCK_STREAM and SOCK_DGRAM are swapped compared to the other. I wonder > > why. But anyway, at that time I choose to clone the constants from the > > newer one. > > Solaris is the same way...it's probably an SVR thing. > (If you're going to use sockets, though, why not use the BSD values?) One crappy conversion routine less. I checked my own source base at home; both libc and the kernel use the same values as IRIX 6.2 so there must be something wrong with your libc. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 1 23:44:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA07742; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:44:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA28561 for linux-list; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:43:57 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA28554 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:43:55 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA27378; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:43:36 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id IAA20883; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:43:29 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id IAA12891; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:43:26 +0200 Message-ID: <33926B8D.41C6@munich.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:43:25 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Shaver CC: ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com, vjs@yon.engr.sgi.com, dmk@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Name the external domain References: <199705302239.SAA23787@neon.ingenia.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1359 Lines: 31 Mike Shaver wrote: > > Thus spake Ariel Faigon: > > [linux.] at.sgi.com > > I don't like this one very much, if only because it's hard to explain > verbally. ('at' vs. '@', etc.) > > .unchained.sgi.com isn't bad, although I understand that we might be > able to get some funding from Marketing if we used .cosmo.sgi.com. =) > Unlikely, unless you mean the compression guys :-( The Cosmo types have already been assimilated by the dark force. What is wrong with calling the external domain "linux.sgi.com" and then find a cool host name (like "penguin")? Martin -- Check out the DevForum 97 !!!! (http://www.sgi.com/Forum97/) If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself. Neither will I :-) +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 1 23:44:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA07673; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:44:17 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA28615 for linux-list; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:44:08 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA28606 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:44:07 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA27389 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:44:05 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id IAA20897; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:44:02 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id IAA12918; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:44:00 +0200 Message-ID: <33926BB0.167E@munich.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:44:00 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry McVoy CC: "David S. Miller" , ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Name the external domain References: <199705302244.PAA11945@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1183 Lines: 28 Larry McVoy wrote: > > OK, I got a better idea. Make the top level domain linux.sgi.com and > the machine[s] stuff like > > linus.linux.sgi.com # because we like him (alias) > ftp.linux.sgi.com # because people will remember it (alias) > www.linux.sgi.com # alias > linux.linux.sgi.com # real machine > > Watcha all think? excellent. Martin -- Check out the DevForum 97 !!!! (http://www.sgi.com/Forum97/) If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself. Neither will I :-) +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 00:17:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA09255; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:17:49 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA02866 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:17:29 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA02854 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:17:22 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id AAA10372 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:16:28 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07078 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:12:24 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706020712.JAA07078@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id JAA07340; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:12:22 +0200 Subject: More FP stuff ... To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:12:22 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 365 Lines: 11 Hi all, I was finally fed up with the side effects of not having the proper FP support in the kernel and started to write all the stuff. Someone else who has a MIPS IV machine should add the MIPS IV bits. Software FP, C64 strikes back ;-) Can anybody recommend a floating point test suite or applications that are suitable for verfication of the stuff? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 00:53:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA01935; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:53:01 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA06412 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:52:48 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA06406 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:52:44 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id AAA14321 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:52:28 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12680; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:47:55 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706020747.JAA12680@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id JAA08937; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:47:54 +0200 Subject: New GCC patches uploaded Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:47:54 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently-To: Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 787 Lines: 24 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all, I've uploaded a new GCC patch gcc-2.7.2-4.diff.gz to kernel.panic.julia.de and ftp.fnet.fr. The patches fixes bug that the big endian targets had different predefined preprocessor symbols. It also reduces the a little bit excessive alignments that were used for trampolines. There is no real need to upgrade to this version if you're already running GCC 2.7.2-3 and can ignore some warnings. Ralf 77e6b058dae70d4d1cc6d970bbc30afa gcc-2.7.2-4.gz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAgUBM5J6pkckbl6vezDBAQF2dgQAqT7Z+y/X5pDgLqy+AvkFXS4rsNwSoGFI dvdN1SwZMJsNctH4FYZYY02OSwzlpmlvbKr6hbrFEKapL6NvaQfkxrONQAk+9or0 vegnDwvqmqHbd/mxiQbdpVpIc7FCdYfwihUWMtVjP2yQZ7woVYbdXd/g+c4L0uuW 9/Bbu/Jcwz8= =3h+R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 08:13:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA23282; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:13:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA02805 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:12:39 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA02797 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:12:35 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA12727 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:12:30 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA09959 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:09:36 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706021509.LAA09959@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: DevForum! To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:09:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 365 Lines: 7 -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> UNIX medicine man -- dark magick, cheap! #> #> When the going gets tough, the tough give cryptic error messages. #> "We believe in rough consensus and running code." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 08:18:58 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA22859; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:18:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA04069 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:18:49 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA04065 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:18:46 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA14334 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:18:42 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA10003 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:14:58 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706021514.LAA10003@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Duh (was DevForum) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:14:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 710 Lines: 17 (Sorry about that...buffered keystrokes'll be the death of me.) I _will_ be attending the DevForum next week, thanks to the kind guys at SGI Ottawa. I'll definitely be around for Ariel's talk, and I should be around for bits of Monday and Tuesday. Now you know... Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Resident Linux bigot and kernel hacker. (OOPS!) #> `If you get bitten by a bug, tough luck...the one thing I won't do #> is feel sorry for you. In fact, I might ask you to do it all over #> again, just to get more information. I'm a heartless bastard.' #> -- Linus Torvalds (on development kernels) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 08:47:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA01335; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:47:56 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA09424 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:47:07 -0700 Received: from sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com (sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com [169.238.151.130]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA09402 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:47:03 -0700 Received: from akira.tampa.sgi.com by sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/930416.SGI) for <@sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com:linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com> id LAA14971; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:42:34 -0400 Received: by akira.tampa.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) for linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com id LAA11225; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:50:04 -0400 From: "Liam Irish" Message-Id: <9706021150.ZM11223@akira.tampa.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:50:04 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Superpenguin 's slogan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 215 Lines: 13 Hey, how about "Putting the MIPS back in BogoMIPS" for a slogan? Nice dual (triple even) meaning. -- Liam Irish System Engineer Tampa, FL Silicon Graphics, Inc. (813)281-4620 irish@tampa.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 09:56:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA09523; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:56:46 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA28862 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:56:01 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA28846 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:55:59 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA10511 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:55:48 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA03747; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:51:10 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706021651.SAA03747@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id SAA27109; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:51:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Superpenguin 's slogan To: irish@akira.tampa.sgi.com (Liam Irish) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:51:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9706021150.ZM11223@akira.tampa.sgi.com> from "Liam Irish" at Jun 2, 97 11:50:04 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 710 Lines: 19 > Hey, how about > > > "Putting the MIPS back in BogoMIPS" > > for a slogan? Nice dual (triple even) meaning. The old RISC/os systems from Mips had a default motd like *************************************************************************** * * * MIPS - the measure of performance * * * *************************************************************************** At Waldorf Electronics were I started works on the MIPS port our Linux machines had exactly the same motd just with "Linux, the measure of price". Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 10:58:39 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA17352; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:58:39 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA21245 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:58:16 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA21128 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:58:12 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id KAA27535; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:58:10 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706021058.ZM27533@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:58:10 -0700 In-Reply-To: Bob Mende Pie "Re: Name the external domain" (May 30, 4:04pm) References: <199705302304.QAA63456@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Name the external domain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1303 Lines: 34 On May 30, 4:04pm, Bob Mende Pie wrote: > Subject: Re: Name the external domain > > Given that what Vernon is looking for is a domain for those hosts that are > outside of the firewall > (yet inside of the packet filter) > that dont provide well known service names > (www.sgi.com, ftp.sgi.com) > > I was thought of the strip of land around a castle that is between the > outer wall and the moat. According to the "Castles on the web glossary" > http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/glossary.html this strip of land is called > the berm. > > /Bob... mailto:mende@sgi.com > http://reality.sgi.com/mende/ KF6EID >-- End of excerpt from Bob Mende Pie This is my favorite! -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 756-5976 SGI vmail: 678-4530 | | FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 11:39:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA00907; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:39:42 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA04616 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:38:50 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA04604 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:38:48 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA15788 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:38:39 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA24656 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:07:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:07:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Native compiler? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 685 Lines: 21 Now that Mike has telnetd running (yay!), I can start compiling and testing the gobs of software that's out there. What would help greatly is to be able to do all the development on the same box. Can anyone tell me what's involved in compiling a native gcc compiler for linux-sgi? Is it as easy as the compile docs for gcc say it is? I remember it being a real pain in my attempts to get gcc running for non-MIPS CPU's on a Pyramid. In any case, good work. Congratulations to Mike, Ralf, David and everyone else. - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 11:16:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA15702; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:16:26 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA26635 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:16:04 -0700 Received: from sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com (sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com [169.238.151.130]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA26622 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:16:01 -0700 Received: from akira.tampa.sgi.com by sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/930416.SGI) for <@sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com:linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com> id OAA15227; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:11:42 -0400 Received: by akira.tampa.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) for linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com id OAA11437; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:19:13 -0400 From: "Liam Irish" Message-Id: <9706021419.ZM11435@akira.tampa.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:19:13 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 667 Lines: 20 > > Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > > Take a look at the little endian RPM packages I've published on > > > kernel.panic.julia.de. All these packages were build from the vanilla > > > SRPM packages on the RedHat 4.1 package. > Urgs... Easier solution - in most cases running configure on a Intel > or even better Sparc Linux machine does the right thing. Or even >-- End of excerpt from Ralf Baechle Has anyone tried it with alpha-linux? Also, could the person mirroring kernel.panic speak up? I'd hate to waste bandwidth on those additional copies. -- Liam Irish System Engineer Tampa, FL Silicon Graphics, Inc. (813)281-4620 irish@tampa.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 11:28:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA22570; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:28:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA00811 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:44 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA00786 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:40 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA11013 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:39 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA12315 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:21:47 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706021821.OAA12315@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:21:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1611 Lines: 47 Here's my plan for getting the userland stuff to critical mass: - kernel and glibc sync'd. Shouldn't be too hard, once I get the new kernel from Ralf. (At the very least, I need the SOCK_{STREAM,DGRAM} stuff sorted out, and I'd like to figure out a good strategy for asm/atomic.h.) - rpm built - native gcc built as an rpm - start building rpms natively, and installing them on a fresh partition I think the SCSI driver is dodgy (this may be a known problem), and I need to get glibc installed on neon to ease the configuration issue, but I think we're well on our way. I'm _definitely_ going to need more disk space on neon, but I can steal the ext2 one from bogomips in the short-term. Oh, BTW: [shaver@neon shaver]$ telnet bogomips Trying 205.207.220.72... Connected to bogomips.ingenia.com. Escape character is '^]'. Linux 2.0.12 (bogomips) (ttyp0) bogomips login: root Last login: Mon Jun 2 15:29:21 from neon # ls 205.207.220.72 libexec tmp bin linux-2.0.12.tar.gz usr dev linux-2.1.36.tar.gz var etc proc vmlinux home sbin lib static-bin # exit Connection closed by foreign host. [shaver@neon shaver]$ Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Ignore the man behind the curtain. #> #> "And then I realized that it never should have worked in the first #> place. Thus, it would not work again until rewritten." --- Anon. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 11:25:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA22314; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:56 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA29640 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:43 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.40.41]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA29610; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:39 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA05161; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199706021825.LAA05161@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: "David S. Miller" Cc: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: ah... In-Reply-To: <199705302211.SAA00360@jenolan.caipgeneral> References: <199705302159.OAA04831@fir.engr.sgi.com> <199705302211.SAA00360@jenolan.caipgeneral> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 283 Lines: 7 David S. Miller writes: > > How can you tell if you have an IRIX binary which needs the old or new > socket constants? Is it at the COFF/ELF file format boundary? Yes. An IRIX 4 (COFF) binary needs the old constants. An IRIX 5 or 6 (ELF) binary needs the new constants. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 12:15:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA03660; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:15:25 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA15363 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:14:08 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA15329 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:14:06 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA29993 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:14:05 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA13584; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:55:52 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706021855.OAA13584@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: Superpenguin 's slogan In-Reply-To: <199706021651.SAA03747@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> from Ralf Baechle at "Jun 2, 97 06:51:03 pm" To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 734 Lines: 21 Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > "Putting the MIPS back in BogoMIPS" > > * MIPS - the measure of performance * Skipping right over the "Linux/Indy: the power to hurt your other boxes" tempation, what about: Is your box cool? Is it running Linux? Is it blue? Mike (spending far too much time with the SGI sales guys, it would seem) -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Chief System Architect -- Head geek -- System exorcist #> #> "Have you considered a life? I hear they're quite affordable #> these days." --- shields@tembel.org From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 2 23:27:59 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA09240; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:27:59 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA22174 for linux-list; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:27:42 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA22170 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:27:34 -0700 Received: from bhairavi (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA01500; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:26:58 -0700 Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA10404; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:49:13 +0530 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:49:13 +0530 Message-Id: <199706030619.LAA10404@bhairavi> From: Raj Mathur To: Martin Knoblauch Cc: Mike Shaver , ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com, vjs@yon.engr.sgi.com, dmk@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Name the external domain In-Reply-To: <33926B8D.41C6@munich.sgi.com> References: <199705302239.SAA23787@neon.ingenia.ca> <33926B8D.41C6@munich.sgi.com> Reply-To: raju@bhairavi Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.93) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 716 Lines: 18 >>>>> "Martin" == Martin Knoblauch writes: Martin> [snip] Martin> What is wrong with calling the external domain Martin> "linux.sgi.com" and then find a cool host name (like Martin> "penguin")? Even better, call the domain "penguin.sgi.com" and then have machines like "linux.penguin.sgi.com" ... Friendly enough for me :) -- Raju -- Raj Mathur / Web Technical Support / Silicon Graphics / New Delhi +91-11-6216324/25, 6211354/55 / raju@sgi.com / 7228 http://reality.sgi.com/raju / It is the Mind that Moves PGP: F2 D4 4A 21 27 B0 63 FF | Not necessarily speaking 15 97 9D AE 9D 40 BC B8 | for Silicon Graphics From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 11:29:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA01862; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:29:04 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA17388 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:28:50 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA17355 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:28:47 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA00134 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:28:33 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from flake (ralf@flake.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.37]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA01401; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:23:49 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706031823.UAA01401@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by flake (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id UAA04106; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:23:43 +0200 Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:23:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706021821.OAA12315@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 2, 97 02:21:47 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1177 Lines: 35 > Here's my plan for getting the userland stuff to critical mass: > - kernel and glibc sync'd. Shouldn't be too hard, once I get the new > kernel from Ralf. Sorry, it's taking a bit longer. In the meantime I synced with .42; still need to fix some more bugs. > (At the very least, I need the SOCK_{STREAM,DGRAM} > stuff sorted out, and I'd like to figure out a good strategy for > asm/atomic.h.) Whith what package again did you have the problems with atomic.h? > - rpm built > - native gcc built as an rpm > - start building rpms natively, and installing them on a fresh > partition > > I think the SCSI driver is dodgy (this may be a known problem), and I > need to get glibc installed on neon to ease the configuration issue, > but I think we're well on our way. > > I'm _definitely_ going to need more disk space on neon, but I can > steal the ext2 one from bogomips in the short-term. Yeah, and if there won't be xfs for linux I'd really like to see ext2 support for IRIX ... > Oh, BTW: > [shaver@neon shaver]$ telnet bogomips ssh works also pretty good. The only problem it has is that my X pseudo port has still a "couple" of bugs. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 11:39:33 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA04016; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:33 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA22082 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:05 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA22002 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:38:53 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA02859 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:38:37 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from flake (ralf@flake.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.37]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03009; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:34:39 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706031834.UAA03009@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by flake (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id UAA04122; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:34:33 +0200 Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:34:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706021821.OAA12315@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 2, 97 02:21:47 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 148 Lines: 6 Mike, btw, if you feel like it you could try if you can build Perl. I also don't yet have Pearl but many important packages depend of it. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 12:06:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA07575; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:06:41 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA01215 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:06:26 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA01207 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:06:22 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA12528 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:06:21 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA26387; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:48:16 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706031848.OAA26387@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) In-Reply-To: <199706031834.UAA03009@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> from Ralf Baechle at "Jun 3, 97 08:34:33 pm" To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 570 Lines: 14 Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > btw, if you feel like it you could try if you can build Perl. I also > don't yet have Pearl but many important packages depend of it. I'll trade you for bash and procps. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Chief System Architect -- Head geek -- System exorcist #> #> "Have you considered a life? I hear they're quite affordable #> these days." --- shields@tembel.org From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 12:05:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA09982; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:05:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA00747 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:05:01 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA00741 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:04:59 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA11420 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:04:47 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from flake (ralf@flake.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.37]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA06709; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:00:55 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706031900.VAA06709@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by flake (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id VAA04204; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:00:49 +0200 Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:00:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706031848.OAA26387@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 3, 97 02:48:16 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 423 Lines: 13 Hi, > Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > btw, if you feel like it you could try if you can build Perl. I also > > don't yet have Pearl but many important packages depend of it. > > I'll trade you for bash and procps. With some patches procps builds like a snap. Including the X toys :-) Let me dig them out again. What's the problem with bash? I've build Bash 1.x. (needs source changes) and 2.0 with no problems. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 12:21:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA10871; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:21:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA05569 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:21:30 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA05494 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:21:19 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA16162 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:21:18 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA27231 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:18:34 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706031918.PAA27231@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: http://bogomips.ingenia.com To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:18:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 546 Lines: 12 Once I figured out why it wasn't arping and didn't want to let me set routes, it got much easier... =) Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Resident Linux bigot and kernel hacker. (OOPS!) #> `If you get bitten by a bug, tough luck...the one thing I won't do #> is feel sorry for you. In fact, I might ask you to do it all over #> again, just to get more information. I'm a heartless bastard.' #> -- Linus Torvalds (on development kernels) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 12:41:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA11472; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:41:26 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA16715 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:41:10 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16664 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:41:06 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA20276 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:40:55 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from flake (ralf@flake.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.37]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11720; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:37:00 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706031937.VAA11720@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by flake (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id VAA04319; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:36:57 +0200 Subject: Re: http://bogomips.ingenia.com To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:36:56 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706031918.PAA27231@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 3, 97 03:18:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 232 Lines: 10 Hi, > Once I figured out why it wasn't arping and didn't want to let me set > routes, it got much easier... =) Haha... The web server on Alan's Mac seems to be motivating :-) Anyway, congrats! That's news to spread ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 15:15:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA12058; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:15:22 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA15508 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:15:06 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA15491 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:15:04 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA07996 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:15:03 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA15185; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:13:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:13:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: Mike Shaver , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) In-Reply-To: <199706031823.UAA01401@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 999 Lines: 34 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Ralf Baechle wrote: > > - rpm built I'm almost there. _almost_. I need to link it with libz, which I just realized is really called zlib, not the zlibc found on prep.ai.mit.edu. Who knew? I'm just getting problmes now with glibc's crt1.o, which I know little or nothing about. Ralph, can you give us (Mike or I) a copy of your SSH's? We will in turn keep you up to date with our userland binaries, and hopefully we can move towards sharing RPMs, both source and binary. mips-linux-gcc, incidentally, is very impressive. - - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBM5SXGe5CP+X51y2VAQG/+QL/fibKfgBkkO/qmT5lSvU1guwLdpDrp22K kyt5zzuMkpNqMBGW1uS8vBrs9UFxJdADtrKrCzVTP9jVTSIBYZKbXTOZUdeII7Ak pdtvKkU5fpgRsErFVyFLnEO4IroNq0GK =kBWg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 15:26:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA12433; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:26:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA18532 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:26:33 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA18524 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:26:29 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA11111 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:26:28 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA15747; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:24:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: Mike Shaver , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 340 Lines: 15 On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Alex deVries wrote: > Ralph, can you give us (Mike or I) a copy of your SSH's? We will in turn ^^^^ Ish. I'm very, very sorry. I meant 'Ralf'. - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 17:04:11 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA16865; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:04:11 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA20848 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:03:33 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA20828 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:03:26 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA02782 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:03:25 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25626; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA02050; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:57:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:57:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199706032357.TAA02050@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706031918.PAA27231@neon.ingenia.ca> (message from Mike Shaver on Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:18:34 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: http://bogomips.ingenia.com Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 714 Lines: 19 From: Mike Shaver Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Once I figured out why it wasn't arping and didn't want to let me set routes, it got much easier... =) Scheisse... Linux version 2.0.12 (dm@neteng) (gcc version 2.7.2) #2 Mon Aug 12 04:43:30 PDT 1996 I built that two days before stepping on the plane last summer to leave my internship ;-) ---------------------------------------------//// Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & //// 199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s //// ethernet. Beat that! //// -----------------------------------------////__________ o David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ >< From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 3 17:46:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA03597; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:46:29 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA02364 for linux-list; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:28 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA02318 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:19 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA14995 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:13 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from flake (ralf@flake.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.37]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA04699; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:41:21 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706040041.CAA04699@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by flake (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id CAA05044; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:41:15 +0200 Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:41:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Jun 3, 97 06:13:42 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 806 Lines: 23 > I need to link it with libz, which I just realized is really called zlib, > not the zlibc found on prep.ai.mit.edu. Who knew? I'm just getting > problmes now with glibc's crt1.o, which I know little or nothing about. > > Ralph, can you give us (Mike or I) a copy of your SSH's? We will in turn s/Ralph/Ralf/ > keep you up to date with our userland binaries, and hopefully we can move > towards sharing RPMs, both source and binary. ssh is no big deal. Builds out of the box. You will just have to tell it for which architecture you're building, ie: ./configure --prefix=/usr mips-linux There is also a rpm source package for libz available, but for now you can just use the libz.a and includes included with ssh. > mips-linux-gcc, incidentally, is very impressive. Just another GCC. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 00:05:21 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA07407; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:05:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA03667 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:04:20 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA03656 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:04:17 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id JAA13148; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:04:14 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id JAA23763; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:04:10 +0200 Message-ID: <3395136A.167E@munich.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:04:10 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David S. Miller" CC: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: http://bogomips.ingenia.com References: <199706032357.TAA02050@jenolan.caipgeneral> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1210 Lines: 30 David S. Miller wrote: > > From: Mike Shaver > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:18:34 -0400 (EDT) > > Once I figured out why it wasn't arping and didn't want to let me > set routes, it got much easier... =) > > Scheisse... > David, is this all you learned in Wuerzburg? I'm disappointed :-) As for the topic: congratulations Mike. Someone should maybe leak it out to the newsgroups. Martin -- Check out the DevForum 97 !!!! (http://www.sgi.com/Forum97/) If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself. Neither will I :-) +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 07:11:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA15462; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:11:04 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA09254 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:09:30 -0700 Received: from sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com (sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com [169.238.151.130]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA09241 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:09:27 -0700 Received: from akira.tampa.sgi.com by sgitpa.tampa.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/930416.SGI) id KAA04429; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:05:02 -0400 Received: by akira.tampa.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id KAA02606; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:04:56 -0400 From: "Liam Irish" Message-Id: <9706041004.ZM2604@akira.tampa.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:04:56 -0400 In-Reply-To: Ralf Baechle "Re: The Plan For Userland(tm)" (Jun 3, 8:23pm) References: <199706031823.UAA01401@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Ralf Baechle Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 820 Lines: 24 On Jun 3, 8:23pm, Ralf Baechle wrote: > Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) > > Yeah, and if there won't be xfs for linux I'd really like to see ext2 > support for IRIX ... > Ralf >-- End of excerpt from Ralf Baechle I'd like to do that. I've already been talking to some engineers about it. I was trying to determine if it already been done. Guess not. I think it'd be easier to put ext2 on irix than xfs on linux, esp considering the other options involved with xfs. Would it be 32-bit xfs? Anyway. They both interface a VFS, so it should be _too_ bad. Unfortunately, I haven't seen to much documentation for VFS on irix. Well, see if the Mtn View engineers will help out in that regard. -- Liam Irish System Engineer Tampa, FL Silicon Graphics, Inc. (813)281-4620 irish@tampa.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 07:48:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA19307; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:48:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA20738 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:48:35 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA20706 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:48:30 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA23157 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:48:25 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15362; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:42:19 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA14054; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:40:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199706041440.QAA14054@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) To: irish@akira.tampa.sgi.com (Liam Irish) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:40:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9706041004.ZM2604@akira.tampa.sgi.com> from "Liam Irish" at Jun 4, 97 10:04:56 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 799 Lines: 20 > > Yeah, and if there won't be xfs for linux I'd really like to see ext2 > > support for IRIX ... > > > Ralf > >-- End of excerpt from Ralf Baechle > > > I'd like to do that. I've already been talking to some engineers about it. I > was trying to determine if it already been done. Guess not. I think it'd be > easier to put ext2 on irix than xfs on linux, esp considering the other options > involved with xfs. Would it be 32-bit xfs? > > Anyway. They both interface a VFS, so it should be _too_ bad. Unfortunately, > I haven't seen to much documentation for VFS on irix. Well, see if the Mtn > View engineers will help out in that regard. The other fun thing is that right now David and some other people are rewriting the Linux VFS which also has impact on the ext2 code. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 08:25:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA19849; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:25:07 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA04240 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:24:22 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA04223 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:24:19 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA00586 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:24:18 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA11941 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:23:29 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706041523.LAA11941@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: exposure To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:23:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1851 Lines: 82 Poor little bogomips has been getting hit by all manner of people. I'd better make sure it stays up! =) Here's the sort|uniq'd list of hosts: 129.174.166.56 136.1.1.19 195.1.185.18 205.179.228.11 9412.steinan.ntnu.no access223.abacom.com alpha.franken.de ano.krs.hia.no banzai.funcom.com birk31.studby.uio.no blizzard-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se cache1.tc.cornell.edu canada.viennasys.com canna.physics.ox.ac.uk caraway.hensa.ac.uk corea.nvg.hil.no dana.origo.no dh16.digital-hverdag.no dhcpcx113.computas.no diamondage.cymru.net dione.isg.fr dnv-gw.dnv.no ecarh29c.nortel.ca enetws10.sds.no europa.ext.eastgw.xerox.com figment.origo.no ganymedes.spacetec.no gladsmuir.algor.co.uk gloin.ifi.uio.no gw.softway.com.au gyda.ifi.uio.no harebell.bri.st.com hmv31b-5.itea.ntnu.no hridil.ifi.uio.no immpc20.marina.unit.no io.spacetec.no johnmnb.cs.uit.no kramer.fdse.comma.no lodalen.a.sn.no lrdpf.spacetec.no lysithea.spacetec.no mh.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de mintaka.npt.uit.no mn9.moldenett.no modgud.ifi.uio.no myeah.connect.com.au neon.ingenia.ca orakel1.hiof.no oslo-nntp.eunet.no peterhan.datadok.no plethora.lisgar.edu.on.ca pm4-tor-25.passport.ca popmusic.hamburg.pop.de postkontor.stavanger-tekniske.vgs.no ppp-207-104-173-11.scrm01.pacbell.net ppp213.ins-coin.de proxy1.disney.com saturn5.sun.com schnaps.cnrs.fr scirocco.oslo.dnmi.no sgigate.sgi.com skirfir.ifi.uio.no snafu.rutgers.edu torgil.ifi.uio.no www-proxy.ingenia.com zeus.funcom.com Those Europeans sure seem interested! Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Paranoid for money. Sarcastic for kicks. #> #> "They already *KNOW* I am a whacko, Karen. #> That doesn't mean I am *WRONG*." -- mjr@clark.net From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 10:07:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA00493; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:07:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA20253 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:07:38 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20237 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:07:35 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA28917 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:07:32 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23448; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:45:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:45:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199706041645.LAA23448@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706041523.LAA11941@neon.ingenia.ca> (message from Mike Shaver on Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:23:29 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: exposure X-Windows: Putting new limits on productivity. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 242 Lines: 10 > Poor little bogomips has been getting hit by all manner of people. > I'd better make sure it stays up! =) > > Here's the sort|uniq'd list of hosts: Hey, it is not fair, my machine is not listed :-), and I have demoed that site. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 10:30:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA05226; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:30:55 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA27123 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:29:35 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA27104 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:29:32 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA07656 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:29:30 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA23779; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:28:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:28:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: Mike Shaver , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: The Plan For Userland(tm) In-Reply-To: <199706031823.UAA01401@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 407 Lines: 19 On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Ralf Baechle wrote: > Sorry, it's taking a bit longer. In the meantime I synced with .42; > still need to fix some more bugs. We're looking forward to it. > Whith what package again did you have the problems with atomic.h? procps complains loudly, and doesn't compile although there are other issues with procps. > > - rpm built zlib, rpm 2.4.1 and gzip appear to work. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 11:21:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA08460; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:21:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA14032 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:20:02 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA14021 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:20:00 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id LAA02356; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:19:58 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706041119.ZM2354@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:19:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Forum talk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 679 Lines: 16 Did someone mention that there was going to be a breakout session or something at the Forum for Linux? I don't see it on the agenda. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 756-5976 SGI vmail: 678-4530 | | FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 11:29:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA10154; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:29:49 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA18161 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:28:50 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA18145 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:28:47 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id UAA04093; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:28:45 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id UAA25620; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:28:44 +0200 Message-ID: <3395B3DC.7566@munich.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 20:28:44 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Christopher W. Carlson" CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Forum talk References: <9706041119.ZM2354@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1053 Lines: 22 Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > > Did someone mention that there was going to be a breakout session or > something at the Forum for Linux? I don't see it on the agenda. > I believe I suggested a meeting or BOF. Still a good idea, even if I will miss it.... Martin -- Check out the DevForum 97 !!!! (http://www.sgi.com/Forum97/) If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself. Neither will I :-) +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 4 15:13:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA03252; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:13:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA27134 for linux-list; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:12:56 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA27121 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:12:54 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA10056 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:12:52 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA25856 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:11:39 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706042211.SAA25856@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: woohoo! To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:11:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 672 Lines: 20 [shaver@neon shaver]$ host www.linux.sgi.com www.linux.sgi.com is a nickname for linus.linux.sgi.com linus.linux.sgi.com has address 192.48.153.197 Heh. Though, you might want to fix this: [shaver@neon shaver]$ host linux.sgi.com [shaver@neon shaver]$ Just make it an alias to www.linux, perhaps? Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Information Warfare Division #> Chief Tactical and Strategic Officer "Saepe fidelis" #> #> "I like your game, but we have to change the rules." -- Anon #> From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 5 20:39:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA22136; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:29 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA28136 for linux-list; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:11 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA28111 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:09 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA15843 for linux; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:09 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706060339.UAA15843@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: bogomips is cool To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 330 Lines: 15 Hi, For those who didn't get it yet (are there any?) bogomips.ingenia.com is an Indy R5000 that not only runs Linux, it is even running a web server. http://bogomips.ingenia.com/ It is pretty fast considering it is in Ottawa and it is not yet using its local disk (is this right Mike?)... Great job folks! -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 5 20:58:52 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04768; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA04744 for linux-list; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:37 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04740 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:36 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA15913 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:15 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04712 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:14 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA04872 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:58:13 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA22624; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:44:49 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706060344.XAA22624@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: bogomips is cool In-Reply-To: <199706060339.UAA15843@yon.engr.sgi.com> from Ariel Faigon at "Jun 5, 97 08:39:08 pm" To: ariel@sgi.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 844 Lines: 22 Thus spake Ariel Faigon: > http://bogomips.ingenia.com/ > > It is pretty fast considering it is in Ottawa and it is not > yet using its local disk (is this right Mike?)... Yeah, it's all running NFS'd off of neon. That may change over the next few days. I suspect my disk problems might have had something to do with the fact that I was using the IRIX-hosted ext2fs tools. I'll try to build some natively-hosted ext2 widgets tomorrow (perhaps even ext2extend =) ) and see if it gets better. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Commando Developer - Whatever It Takes #> #> "See, you not only have to be a good coder to create a system like #> Linux, you have to be a sneaky bastard too." - Linus Torvalds From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 08:37:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA14194; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:37:38 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA19700 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:37:30 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA19684 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:37:28 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA10955 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:37:25 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA00660 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:35:52 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706061135.HAA00660@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: bogomips To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:35:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 453 Lines: 13 is back. (The electrician has been and gone, and bogomips is now UPS'd as well.) Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Chief System Architect -- will tame sendmail(8) for food #> #> "You are a very perverse individual, and I think I'd like to get to #> know you better." --- eric@reference.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 08:16:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA12586; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:16:25 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA11796 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA11781 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:16:02 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA04587 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:16:00 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA25774 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:56:18 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706061356.JAA25774@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: bogomips down (briefly) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:56:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 766 Lines: 19 Bogomips is down right now for a switch to "cleaner power". (The lights in this room are going up and down like a toilet seat at a mixed party, so I'm going to stick it on a UPS.) I'll probably also swap out the extra drive for use in the March To Userland, and for the build of the new kernel. Any news on www.linux.sgi.com? I can't resolve _any_ sgi.com domains right now, so I think there might be a problem on my end. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Welcome to the technocracy. #> #> "you'd be so disappointed #> to find out that the magic was not #> really meant for you" - OLP From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 08:36:09 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA10044; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:36:09 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA18993 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:35:59 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA18972 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:35:56 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA10217 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:35:52 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17096 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:29:10 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18179 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:27:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199706061527.RAA18179@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:27:24 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 194 Lines: 7 Hi, I've started to merge the MIPS changes into David's CVS archive. The first and biggest bundle of patches to include/asm-mips/ and arch/mips/ should be released by Linus in 2.1.44. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 10:32:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20692; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:32:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA29986 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:39 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA29955 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:37 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA17431 for linux; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:37 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706061731.KAA17431@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199706061527.RAA18179@kernel.panic.julia.de> from "Ralf Baechle" at Jun 6, 97 05:27:24 pm Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 372 Lines: 16 : :Hi, : :I've started to merge the MIPS changes into David's CVS archive. The :first and biggest bundle of patches to include/asm-mips/ and arch/mips/ :should be released by Linus in 2.1.44. : : Ralf : When we have our SGI/MIPS/Linux code rolled into the mainstream Linux distribution it will definitely be a pretty important milestone. Way to go! -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 10:41:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA17814; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:41:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA03274 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:54 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA03265 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:52 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA17504 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:37 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA03163 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:35 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA23679 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:31 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19145; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:34:02 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA18428; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:32:16 +0200 Message-Id: <199706061732.TAA18428@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: ariel@sgi.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:32:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706061731.KAA17431@yon.engr.sgi.com> from "Ariel Faigon" at Jun 6, 97 10:31:37 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 666 Lines: 19 > :Hi, > : > :I've started to merge the MIPS changes into David's CVS archive. The > :first and biggest bundle of patches to include/asm-mips/ and arch/mips/ > :should be released by Linus in 2.1.44. > : > : Ralf > : > > When we have our SGI/MIPS/Linux code rolled into the > mainstream Linux distribution it will definitely be > a pretty important milestone. Way to go! Yes, indeed. It was also important to at merge at least a major fraction of the sources back since the stuff in Linus distribution is already pretty dated and some people were therefore believing the MIPS project would be dead. While as you know exactly the opposite is true ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 11:08:10 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA20420; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:08:09 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA12186 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:08:00 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12174 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:07:59 -0700 Received: from piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (piecomputer.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.28]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA17691 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:07:58 -0700 Received: (from mende@localhost) by piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA01554; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706061807.LAA01554@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> From: Bob Mende Pie To: ralf@Julia.DE CC: ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706061732.TAA18428@kernel.panic.julia.de> (message from Ralf Baechle on Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:32:16 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 440 Lines: 10 Ralf, Have you verified that the newest code still works on the other MIPS based systems? Also, is it possible to have (linux) binary compatability between a mips Magnum or Millennium and an Indy? There is a 50Mhz Millennium over here that we might be able to use as a test system. /Bob... mailto:mende@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/mende/ KF6EID From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 6 11:46:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA19886; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:46:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA24983 for linux-list; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:46:04 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA24952 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:46:00 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA17967 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:45:33 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA24816; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:45:30 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA15789; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:45:23 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19881; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:38:34 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA18495; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:36:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199706061836.UAA18495@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: mende@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (Bob Mende Pie) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:36:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@Julia.DE, ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706061807.LAA01554@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> from "Bob Mende Pie" at Jun 6, 97 11:07:29 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1204 Lines: 26 > Have you verified that the newest code still works on the other MIPS > based systems? Also, is it possible to have (linux) binary compatability > between a mips Magnum or Millennium and an Indy? By principle there is no problem to feed these machines even with IRIX binaries. Right now the port to these machines assumes that it is running on the machine configured to little endian mode but porting to big endian should be easy. > There is a 50Mhz Millennium over here that we might be able to use as a > test system. The support for these machines is currently not complete yet. We don't yet have SCSI driver which should be easy to write because the machine also uses the same NCR53C94 / FAS213 SCSI chip as the Sparc port already does. In fact I'd be very happy if someone would take care of these machines. By supporting the Millenium we'd also have most of the support for the Olivetti M700 (mostly an OEM Magnum), Acer PICA, certain machines based on a Toshiba chipset and at least partially the NEC RISCstation series. > /Bob... mailto:mende@sgi.com > http://reality.sgi.com/mende/ KF6EID 73 de Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 9 11:36:36 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA11762; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:36 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA03132 for linux-list; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:21 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA03113 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:18 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA25776 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:17 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA02114; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:36:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199706091836.LAA02114@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Bob Mende Pie Cc: ralf@Julia.DE, ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources In-Reply-To: <199706061807.LAA01554@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> References: <199706061732.TAA18428@kernel.panic.julia.de> <199706061807.LAA01554@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 949 Lines: 18 Bob Mende Pie writes: > Ralf, > > Have you verified that the newest code still works on the other MIPS > based systems? Also, is it possible to have (linux) binary compatability > between a mips Magnum or Millennium and an Indy? > There is a 50Mhz Millennium over here that we might be able to use as a > test system. If the MIPS system is running big-endian (as under RISCos), it can be binary-compatible with Indy linux, just as RISCos 5.01 -systype svr4 binaries are binary-compatible with Indy IRIX 5.1 and later systems. If the MIPS system is running little-endian (as under NT), it cannot be binary-compatible with Indy linux, without adding bi-endian support (for running opposite-endian binaries, which is feasible, but messy). We prototyped bi-endian support in RISCos when before the Magnum was built, and it worked, but the code was very ugly in the streams area. linux would likely be easier, but still a hassle. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 9 11:42:47 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA21058; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:47 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA05082 for linux-list; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:31 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA05062 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:29 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA25818 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:28 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA02169; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:26 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:42:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199706091842.LAA02169@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Ralf Baechle Cc: mende@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (Bob Mende Pie), ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources In-Reply-To: <199706061836.UAA18495@kernel.panic.julia.de> References: <199706061807.LAA01554@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> <199706061836.UAA18495@kernel.panic.julia.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1227 Lines: 22 Ralf Baechle writes: > > Have you verified that the newest code still works on the other MIPS > > based systems? Also, is it possible to have (linux) binary compatability > > between a mips Magnum or Millennium and an Indy? > > By principle there is no problem to feed these machines even with IRIX > binaries. Right now the port to these machines assumes that it is running > on the machine configured to little endian mode but porting to big endian > should be easy. Note, however, that running big-endian on the MIPS systems is a bit of a hack. They were originally designed to be little-endian-only (a MIPS management aberration), so running big-endian means that, in general, I/O DMA has to be byte-swapped by software. RISCos would preferentially write file systems on disks in native-endian format, which, if read on a different system, would appear to be byte-swapped within each doubleword. That is, RISCos would skip the byte-swapping on non-removable media, unless the magic number in the superblock indicated that the disk was initialized in true big-endian format. For all other media, RISCos would byte-swap, but, since those were much lower data rate, the performance impact was small. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 9 13:32:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA10592; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:32:24 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA16188 for linux-list; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:32:08 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA16174 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:32:05 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA26384 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:31:43 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA16098 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:31:42 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA21607 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:31:40 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04137; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:06:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:06:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199706092006.PAA04137@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca CC: ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706060344.XAA22624@neon.ingenia.ca> (message from Mike Shaver on Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: bogomips is cool X-Info: When in doubt, blame the network Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 176 Lines: 7 > I'll try to build some natively-hosted ext2 widgets tomorrow (perhaps > even ext2extend =) ) and see if it gets better. Wee!!! ext2extend, I just noticed this :-) Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 10 04:16:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA12919; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:16:25 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA23990 for linux-list; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:16:00 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA23984 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:15:56 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA28220 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:15:35 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA23927; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:15:33 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA25907; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:06:46 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA18571; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:59:21 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706101059.MAA18571@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id MAA21876; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:59:19 +0200 Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:59:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mende@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706091836.LAA02114@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Jun 9, 97 11:36:10 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 973 Lines: 17 > If the MIPS system is running big-endian (as under RISCos), it can > be binary-compatible with Indy linux, just as RISCos 5.01 -systype svr4 > binaries are binary-compatible with Indy IRIX 5.1 and later systems. > If the MIPS system is running little-endian (as under NT), it cannot > be binary-compatible with Indy linux, without adding bi-endian support > (for running opposite-endian binaries, which is feasible, but messy). > We prototyped bi-endian support in RISCos when before the Magnum > was built, and it worked, but the code was very ugly in the streams > area. linux would likely be easier, but still a hassle. Now that the overhead of accessing the userspace from the kernel under Linux is very close to zero I fear that the additional overhead of the byteorder conversion will show up very clearly in benchmarks unless someone comes up with very clever ideas how do this. Do you have numbers how much the impact on RISC/os performance was? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 10 11:08:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA03648; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:08:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA06611 for linux-list; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:08:28 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA06602 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:08:26 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA29010 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:08:04 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA06462 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:07:59 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA12611 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:07:03 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13548; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:43:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:43:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199706101743.MAA13548@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Miguel's Indy is here Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 153 Lines: 8 Hello guys, I have just been informed that the Indy is at my friend's house, he is bringing the machine to the University now :-). Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 10 10:49:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA02762; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:49:12 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA01498 for linux-list; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:49 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA01487 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:47 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA28915 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:46 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA27937; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199706101748.KAA27937@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Ralf Baechle Cc: mende@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources In-Reply-To: <199706101059.MAA18571@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> References: <199706091836.LAA02114@fir.engr.sgi.com> <199706101059.MAA18571@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2349 Lines: 39 Ralf Baechle writes: > > If the MIPS system is running big-endian (as under RISCos), it can > > be binary-compatible with Indy linux, just as RISCos 5.01 -systype svr4 > > binaries are binary-compatible with Indy IRIX 5.1 and later systems. > > If the MIPS system is running little-endian (as under NT), it cannot > > be binary-compatible with Indy linux, without adding bi-endian support > > (for running opposite-endian binaries, which is feasible, but messy). > > We prototyped bi-endian support in RISCos when before the Magnum > > was built, and it worked, but the code was very ugly in the streams > > area. linux would likely be easier, but still a hassle. > > Now that the overhead of accessing the userspace from the kernel under > Linux is very close to zero I fear that the additional overhead of the > byteorder conversion will show up very clearly in benchmarks unless > someone comes up with very clever ideas how do this. Do you have > numbers how much the impact on RISC/os performance was? I don't have the numbers ready to hand, but it was not huge for most things, given the hack of running the disk wrong-endian. CPU overhead for non-disk DMA I/O was higher, of course, but there is no extra overhead for operations where all the arguments are in registers. (An integer in a register is the same, no matter which endian you are.) getpid(), for example, is unaffected. Similarly, read() and write() to disk are unaffected. On the other hand, stat() is a little slower. Note that endian data conversion is not blind byte swapping for structures such a stat. Instead, it is a field-by-field operation, since the MIPS reverse-endian mode affects only addressing, not the layout of the bytes of, say, an integer in memory. A 32-bit integer will be at a different offset from the base of the structure (4, say, instead of 0), but the byte order in memory will be the same. The byte numbering of memory is different, which is how it appears that the bytes have been swapped. The structure conversion routines can thus be compiled fairly efficiently, avoiding runtime structure offset calculations for the most part (except for arrays embedded in structures). If this starts to look worth doing, I can supply more imformation, such as examples of how to efficiently convert structures. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 10 14:55:09 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA15543; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:55:09 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA17988 for linux-list; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:54:58 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA17984 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:54:56 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA29561 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:54:35 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA17907; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:54:33 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA11592; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:54:13 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from grass (ralf@grass.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.65]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA20079; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:22:59 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706102022.WAA20079@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by grass (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id WAA04434; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:22:56 +0200 Subject: Re: Merge back of the MIPS sources To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:22:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, mende@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706101748.KAA27937@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Jun 10, 97 10:48:39 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2025 Lines: 35 > I don't have the numbers ready to hand, but it was not huge for most > things, given the hack of running the disk wrong-endian. CPU overhead > for non-disk DMA I/O was higher, of course, but there is no extra > overhead for operations where all the arguments are in registers. > (An integer in a register is the same, no matter which endian you are.) > getpid(), for example, is unaffected. Similarly, read() and write() > to disk are unaffected. On the other hand, stat() is a little slower. > > Note that endian data conversion is not blind byte swapping for > structures such a stat. Instead, it is a field-by-field operation, > since the MIPS reverse-endian mode affects only addressing, not the > layout of the bytes of, say, an integer in memory. A 32-bit integer > will be at a different offset from the base of the structure (4, say, > instead of 0), but the byte order in memory will be the same. The > byte numbering of memory is different, which is how it appears that > the bytes have been swapped. The structure conversion routines can > thus be compiled fairly efficiently, avoiding runtime structure offset > calculations for the most part (except for arrays embedded in > structures). > > If this starts to look worth doing, I can supply more imformation, > such as examples of how to efficiently convert structures. This definately is worth doing. We have a couple of machines where we can not configure byteorder of the kernel to big endian like DECstations or the Acer PICA, essentially a downscaled Magnum with an Indy style L2 cache intended for NT. If we ever want to give them a chance to run commercial software, then we need to go biendian. And we need to implement it very clean or Linus will never accept the patches. Luckily the functions get_user() and put_user in do already a large part of the work for us but nevertheless we need to go through all the code once again. So maybe this is not something for now but definately worth doing. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 11 18:22:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA05511; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:22:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA28917 for linux-list; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:22:25 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA28892 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:22:20 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA03109 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:21:52 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA28740 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:21:44 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA19287 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:21:40 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27828; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:10:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:10:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199706120110.UAA27828@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199705281603.SAA31716@kernel.panic.julia.de> (message from Ralf Baechle on Wed, 28 May 1997 18:03:20 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: My first project on the Indy. X-Windows: The art of incompetence. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 812 Lines: 23 Hello guys, I got my Indy up and running now. My very first project would be to work on the Linux boot loader. I just happily found that there are two disks on the machine, so I will smash the second one with my boot loader tests. Now, where can I find information about the boot process on the SGI? I want to know what does the PROM load from the disk (I bet it loads the first sectors and jumps to them, right?), and where the code is loaded. I happilly found that a program called Insight Library comes with the system and has a lot of information on using the PROM, which is what I am reading now to find out any debugging facilities in there. Some time ago, (maybe Larry or Ariel) mentioned that it would be possible to get me a copy of the boot loader for Irix. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 12 10:42:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA02036; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:42:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA13683 for linux-list; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:56 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA13657 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:54 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA05857 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:12 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA13392 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:10 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA22597 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:41:04 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01751; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:09:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:09:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199706121709.MAA01751@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: C Compiler on my Indy. X-Windows: Complex nonsolutions to simple nonproblems. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 331 Lines: 14 Hello guys, I am trying to populate my machine with GNU programs, and I quickly found that I did not have a C compiler. Anyone have a pointer to where can I get the SGI C compiler, or a pre-compiled gcc binary for irix-6.2? I am getting Ralf cross-compilers (irix->linux) to start work on the libc. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 12 12:02:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA04588; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:02:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA08080 for linux-list; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:02:32 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA08065 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:02:30 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA06340 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:02:09 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA07871 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:02:00 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA13365 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:01:52 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA11965; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:59:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Miguel de Icaza cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: C Compiler on my Indy. In-Reply-To: <199706121709.MAA01751@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 724 Lines: 22 On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Miguel de Icaza wrote: > > I am trying to populate my machine with GNU programs, and I quickly > found that I did not have a C compiler. > > Anyone have a pointer to where can I get the SGI C compiler, or a > pre-compiled gcc binary for irix-6.2? Yup. Ariel packaged gcc 2.7.3 a few weeks ago. It and other Irix programs are on http://www.sgi.com/TasteOfDT/public/freeware2.0/ or similiar. > I am getting Ralf cross-compilers (irix->linux) to start work on > the libc. The cross compilers that Mike Shaver has on his i86 Linux box seems to work pretty much perfectly. However, I can't for the life of me get a native compiler for mips-linux. If anyone has any pointers... - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 04:28:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA20761; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:28:17 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA11764 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:27:31 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA11757 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:27:28 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA08702 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:27:02 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA11691 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:27:01 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA24353 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:20:42 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from schlegel (ralf@schlegel.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.59]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09671; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:16:17 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706131116.NAA09671@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by schlegel (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id NAA17728; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:16:15 +0200 Subject: Re: C Compiler on my Indy. To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:16:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Jun 12, 97 02:59:23 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 255 Lines: 7 > The cross compilers that Mike Shaver has on his i86 Linux box seems to > work pretty much perfectly. However, I can't for the life of me get a > native compiler for mips-linux. If anyone has any pointers... What is the problem building one? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 08:20:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA03944; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:20:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA21286 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:19:44 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA21281 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:19:42 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA29225 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:19:41 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11578; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:55:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:55:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199706131455.JAA11578@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: gcc for Irix. X-Windows: You'll envy the dead. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 288 Lines: 10 Hello guys, I am running into a little problem. The binary gcc that is available on the free software collection is for Irix 5.3 and the include files that are packaged with it are not quite ok for Irix 6.2 I do not have a native cc, so this is kind of problematic :-) Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 09:55:37 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA06415; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:55:36 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA20648 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:54:59 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA20631 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:54:57 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA28555; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:54:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:54:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199706131654.JAA28555@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. In-Reply-To: <199706131455.JAA11578@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> References: <199706131455.JAA11578@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 301 Lines: 9 Miguel de Icaza writes: ... > I am running into a little problem. The binary gcc that is > available on the free software collection is for Irix 5.3 and the > include files that are packaged with it are not quite ok for Irix 6.2 ... In what way do the 5.3 include files cause problems? From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 10:51:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA09116; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:51:16 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA09497 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:50:50 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA09482 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:50:44 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA09670; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:50:28 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706131750.KAA09670@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706131654.JAA28555@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Jun 13, 97 09:54:57 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 920 Lines: 30 : :Miguel de Icaza writes: :... : > I am running into a little problem. The binary gcc that is : > available on the free software collection is for Irix 5.3 and the : > include files that are packaged with it are not quite ok for Irix 6.2 :... : : In what way do the 5.3 include files cause problems? : [Note: I'm taking care of Miguel in private email] The headers that come with gcc are: 1) Only a very small subset of the full set of headers which were preprocessed by gcc 'fix_header' utility. 2) Correspond to the OS version on which gcc was built which may be incompatible in subtle ways with the runtime libraries on a later OS version. Since Miguel's Indy is (apparently) a 6.2 IRIX, possibly without all the necessary header patches, and the gcc he is trying was built on 5.3, I can see why he has header problems. Anyway, don't worry. This is being taken care of. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 13:37:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA13974; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:37:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA01106 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:37:37 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA01101; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:37:35 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA29267; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:37:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:37:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132037.NAA29267@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. In-Reply-To: <199706131750.KAA09670@yon.engr.sgi.com> References: <199706131654.JAA28555@fir.engr.sgi.com> <199706131750.KAA09670@yon.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1175 Lines: 33 Ariel Faigon writes: > : > :Miguel de Icaza writes: > :... > : > I am running into a little problem. The binary gcc that is > : > available on the free software collection is for Irix 5.3 and the > : > include files that are packaged with it are not quite ok for Irix 6.2 > :... > : > : In what way do the 5.3 include files cause problems? > : > > [Note: I'm taking care of Miguel in private email] > > The headers that come with gcc are: > > 1) Only a very small subset of the full set of headers > which were preprocessed by gcc 'fix_header' utility. > > 2) Correspond to the OS version on which gcc was built > which may be incompatible in subtle ways with the > runtime libraries on a later OS version. > > Since Miguel's Indy is (apparently) a 6.2 IRIX, possibly > without all the necessary header patches, and the gcc he > is trying was built on 5.3, I can see why he has header > problems. If the old headers do not work on the new system, that is a bug, not a feature. There had better not be any subtle incompatibilities. (New headers will not work on an old system, but that is a different problem.) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 14:02:47 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA18620; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:02:47 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA05599 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:02:28 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA05570; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:02:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA18708; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:02:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132102.OAA18708@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Ralf Baechle From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver), linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Userland loader / run time loader Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:02:24 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 329 Lines: 8 Can someone give me some info on what has been done or needs to be done to have a 100% self hosting Linux development suite on MIPS? Last I checked, it was missing the loader & rld. Is that still true? If so, do we know why it is hard? I have someone that may be willing to fix this if it is still a problem. Thanks. --lm From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 15:01:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA22434; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:01:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA22967 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:01:34 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA22949; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:01:31 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA27706; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:01:24 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13633; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:53:03 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA04791; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:52:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199706132152.XAA04791@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:52:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706132102.OAA18708@neteng.engr.sgi.com> from "Larry McVoy" at Jun 13, 97 02:02:24 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 907 Lines: 19 > Can someone give me some info on what has been done or needs to be done to > have a 100% self hosting Linux development suite on MIPS? Last I checked, > it was missing the loader & rld. Is that still true? If so, do we know > why it is hard? I have someone that may be willing to fix this if it is > still a problem. Thanks. The development suite is fully useable for bootstrapping itself. Check the little endian rpm packages on my workstation kernel.panic.julia.de; they all were built from unchanged RedHat 4.1 source packages and use shared libraries. Aside of a possibility to load the kernel from an ext2fs filesystem the most urgent thing we need currently is debugging, debugging ... Things look different if we're talking about 64bit. Last time I checked with the Kazumoto Koshima who did a 64bit Hurd port to Sony NeWS the 64bit linker was still not what I'd call reliable ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 16:45:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA06948; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:45:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA19956 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:44:38 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA18401; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:40:51 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA20844; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:40:04 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15768; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:30:45 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA06504; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:29:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199706132329.BAA06504@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:29:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@Julia.DE, lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Jun 13, 97 07:30:37 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 870 Lines: 24 > To begin with, excuse my noviceness in this all. Those are LSB binaries, > whereas the sgi-linux box that I have access to (bogomips.ingenia.com) > will only run MSB. > > As written on this list earlier, we don't have bi-endian support. So, > which one is it we're going to support to begin with? How is it that Ralf > is able to execute LSB binaries? > > Am I missing something big? {\grin[evil] Because I've got four types of MIPS boxes running Linux at home and to two more I've got access.} I think this also explains why I'm so interested in running biendianess - I'm running out of diskspace ... > Also, there was talk of getting merged up with kernel 2.1.4[234]. Any > luck so far? Yes. I haven't merged all the files of my home CVS archive yet into David's CVS archive from which he sends patches to Linus but the biggest part is now in sync. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 18:54:52 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA05549; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA15506 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:25 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA15491; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:22 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA20105; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:19 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA19760; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:30:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:30:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: Larry McVoy , ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader In-Reply-To: <199706132152.XAA04791@kernel.panic.julia.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 789 Lines: 22 On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Ralf Baechle wrote: > The development suite is fully useable for bootstrapping itself. Check > the little endian rpm packages on my workstation kernel.panic.julia.de; > they all were built from unchanged RedHat 4.1 source packages and use > shared libraries. To begin with, excuse my noviceness in this all. Those are LSB binaries, whereas the sgi-linux box that I have access to (bogomips.ingenia.com) will only run MSB. As written on this list earlier, we don't have bi-endian support. So, which one is it we're going to support to begin with? How is it that Ralf is able to execute LSB binaries? Am I missing something big? Also, there was talk of getting merged up with kernel 2.1.4[234]. Any luck so far? - Alex "ready to debug, debug, debug!" deVries From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 18:54:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA05545; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA15515 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:26 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA15500; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:24 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA20113; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:54:22 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA20275; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:51:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader In-Reply-To: <199706132329.BAA06504@kernel.panic.julia.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 806 Lines: 24 On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Ralf Baechle wrote: > Alex wrote: > > As written on this list earlier, we don't have bi-endian support. So, > > which one is it we're going to support to begin with? How is it that Ralf > > is able to execute LSB binaries? > > Am I missing something big? > > {\grin[evil] Because I've got four types of MIPS boxes running Linux at > home and to two more I've got access.} To address the needs of us lowly folk who have fewer than 2 MIPS boxes[1], which endian are we going to be supporting first? It would be _very_ pleasant to be able to run all these binaries that Ralf has prepared. Also, exactly how difficult is it to alternate the kernel between big and little endian? This is getting cooler by the minute... [1] In my case, 0, but access network access to 1. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 17:17:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA13733; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:17:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA29407 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:17:11 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA28905; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:13:24 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA28673; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:13:20 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16107; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:05:00 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA08235; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:04:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199706140004.CAA08235@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:04:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@Julia.DE, lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Jun 13, 97 07:51:37 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1245 Lines: 29 > > {\grin[evil] Because I've got four types of MIPS boxes running Linux at > > home and to two more I've got access.} > > To address the needs of us lowly folk who have fewer than 2 MIPS boxes[1], > which endian are we going to be supporting first? It would be _very_ > pleasant to be able to run all these binaries that Ralf has prepared. The dependencies from the byteorder are very low. As long as we do not have a kernel with the capability to execute binaries of both byteorder at the same time byteorder is almost a non-issue for development. Just recompiling, that's it. > Also, exactly how difficult is it to alternate the kernel between big and > little endian? Well, depends on what you mean. The simple solution is just recompiling everything. Works for kernel and user apps. The more complex solution is to make the kernel capable of running user apps of both byteorder at the same time. Among other things this requires that we go through all the kernel source and fix the user space access routines. A bit more of an effort ;-) Mips already did that once for RISC/os. > This is getting cooler by the minute... > > [1] In my case, 0, but access network access to 1. Slower than 10mbit/s doesn't count :-) Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 17:39:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA16802; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:39:37 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA04290 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:39:18 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA04279 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:39:16 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA02942 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:39:14 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16498 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:30:42 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA08292 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:29:45 +0200 Message-Id: <199706140029.CAA08292@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Kernel load address To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:29:44 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 137 Lines: 6 Hi, on SGI we load the kernel to the address 0x88069000. See arch/mips/Makefile. Is there any special reason for that address? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 18:06:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA00207; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:06:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA08495 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:05:07 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA08453; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:04:59 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA00318; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:04:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:04:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199706140104.SAA00318@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Ralf Baechle Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Kernel load address In-Reply-To: <199706140029.CAA08292@kernel.panic.julia.de> References: <199706140029.CAA08292@kernel.panic.julia.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 650 Lines: 14 Ralf Baechle writes: > Hi, > > on SGI we load the kernel to the address 0x88069000. See arch/mips/Makefile. > Is there any special reason for that address? Indy memory (unlike memory on many other SGI systems) starts as physical address 0x08000000, so this is a little above the beginning of memory. (0x88000000 is the K0SEG address for the start of memory.) The first 512 KB of memory is also mapped at physical address 0, so that the exception vectors can be addresses. Production IRIX kernels are linked at 0x88002000. Debug IRIX kernels are linked at about 0x88069000 to leave room for symmon, the IRIX resident kernel debugger. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 13 20:36:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA12420; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:36:51 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA29448 for linux-list; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:36:32 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA29406; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:36:16 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA09233; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:36:14 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17152; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:12:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:12:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199706140312.WAA17152@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca CC: ralf@Julia.DE, lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, shaver@neon.ingenia.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: (message from Alex deVries on Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:51:37 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader X-Windows: The problem for your problem. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 635 Lines: 16 > To address the needs of us lowly folk who have fewer than 2 MIPS boxes[1], > which endian are we going to be supporting first? It would be _very_ > pleasant to be able to run all these binaries that Ralf has prepared. Some time ago, someone mentioned that making the kernel support both big endian and little endian binaries in RISC/os consumed too much of their time. The time we will spend trying to get this bloating hack into the kernel could be easily spent on some more productive things. I will put together a root file system and a bunch of rpms soonish (ie, that is, as soon as I boot my Indy into Linux). Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Jun 14 08:40:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA10136; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:40:16 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA16633 for linux-list; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:33 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA16611 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:30 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id IAA21080; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:28 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706140839.ZM21078@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: "William J. Earl" "Re: gcc for Irix." (Jun 13, 1:37pm) References: <199706131654.JAA28555@fir.engr.sgi.com> <199706131750.KAA09670@yon.engr.sgi.com> <199706132037.NAA29267@fir.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1251 Lines: 31 On Jun 13, 1:37pm, William J. Earl wrote: > > If the old headers do not work on the new system, that is a > bug, not a feature. There had better not be any subtle > incompatibilities. (New headers will not work on an old system, but > that is a different problem.) >-- End of excerpt from William J. Earl Actually, it isn't a bug because there was a major version change. Anything can change between 5.3 and 6.2. I know we try to maintain backwards compatibility but sometimes ANSI requires changes in the number of parameters, there's a change in the values used to pass to functions, etc. I believe our promise is that code compiled on 5.3 will run on 6.2, not that it will still compile. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Jun 14 10:21:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA05207; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:55 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA00611 for linux-list; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:23 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA00606 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:20 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA12726; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:07 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706141721.KAA12726@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. To: carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com (Christopher W. Carlson) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9706140839.ZM21078@heaven.newport.sgi.com> from "Christopher W. Carlson" at Jun 14, 97 08:39:28 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1288 Lines: 29 : :Actually, it isn't a bug because there was a major version change. :Anything can change between 5.3 and 6.2. I know we try to maintain :backwards compatibility but sometimes ANSI requires changes in the :number of parameters, there's a change in the values used to pass to :functions, etc. : :I believe our promise is that code compiled on 5.3 will run on 6.2, :not that it will still compile. : Yes, It was mainly ANSI/POSIX1C/POSIX2/XPG4/UNIX95 (spec 1170) changes (See /usr/include/standards.h) which caused major changes in IRIX headers in order to be able to support all these standards without conflicts (a pretty big undertaking). In addition there were some enhancemnets to certain APIs, for example supporting faster serial speeds which changed some termios.h subtle interfaces (you may still compile with -D_OLD_TERMIOS of course, but still a change that may break compilations on old and arguably not cleanly written UNIX apps -- GNU less comes to mind) And finally there's "fix_headers" - the utility that comes with gcc and fixes headers so they can be used with some gcc conventions and extensions to C. Combine this with our multi-standard headers which I suspect the designers of "fix_headers" never thought of and you get a pretty cool mess :-) -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Jun 14 10:41:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA05385; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:41:41 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA02586 for linux-list; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:41:23 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA02581 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:41:20 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.19.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA21663 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:41:19 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22232; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA04790; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:35:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:35:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199706141735.NAA04790@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: ariel@sgi.com CC: carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706141721.KAA12726@yon.engr.sgi.com> (ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 513 Lines: 11 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) And finally there's "fix_headers" - the utility that comes with gcc and fixes headers so they can be used with some gcc conventions and extensions to C. Combine this with our multi-standard headers which I suspect the designers of "fix_headers" never thought of and you get a pretty cool mess :-) Which is why in gcc-2.8.0 a completely new fix_headers.irix will exist which handles it all properly... From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 15 09:49:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA04732; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:49:41 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA25521 for linux-list; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:49:15 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA25515 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:49:13 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA15448 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:48:46 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA13812 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:44:50 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706151644.SAA13812@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id SAA16711; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:44:48 +0200 Subject: Indy keyboard fix To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 6001 Lines: 224 Hi all, the patch blow fixes the keyboard and the kernel load address such that the new handling of the current pointer works again on the Indy and give your Indy a fresh kernel. Use this in addition to the pre-2 patch. Ralf Index: linux/Makefile diff -u linux/Makefile:1.2 linux/Makefile:1.3 --- linux/Makefile:1.2 Tue Jun 3 00:28:06 1997 +++ linux/Makefile Fri Jun 13 23:33:10 1997 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ VERSION = 2 PATCHLEVEL = 1 -SUBLEVEL = 41 +SUBLEVEL = 42 ARCH = mips Index: linux/arch/mips/Makefile diff -u linux/arch/mips/Makefile:1.2 linux/arch/mips/Makefile:1.3 --- linux/arch/mips/Makefile:1.2 Fri Jun 13 22:38:26 1997 +++ linux/arch/mips/Makefile Sat Jun 14 15:50:48 1997 @@ -1,4 +1,6 @@ # +# $Id:$ +# # arch/mips/Makefile # # This file is included by the global makefile so that you can add your own @@ -135,7 +137,12 @@ ifdef CONFIG_SGI LIBS += arch/mips/sgi/kernel/sgikern.a arch/mips/sgi/prom/promlib.a SUBDIRS += arch/mips/sgi/kernel arch/mips/sgi/prom -LOADADDR += 0x88069000 +# +# Set LOADADDR to >= 0x88069000 if you want to leave space for symmon, +# 0x88002000 for production kernels. Note that the value must be +# 8kb aligned or the handling of the current variable will break. +# +LOADADDR += 0x88002000 HOSTCC = cc endif Index: linux/arch/mips/kernel/setup.c diff -u linux/arch/mips/kernel/setup.c:1.1.1.1 linux/arch/mips/kernel/setup.c:1.2 --- linux/arch/mips/kernel/setup.c:1.1.1.1 Sat May 31 20:16:43 1997 +++ linux/arch/mips/kernel/setup.c Sat Jun 14 15:52:02 1997 @@ -60,8 +60,9 @@ /* * There are several bus types available for MIPS machines. "RISC PC" - * type machines have ISA, EISA or PCI available, some DECstations have - * Turbochannel, SGI has GIO, there are lots of VME boxes ... + * type machines have ISA, EISA, VLB or PCI available, DECstations + * have Turbochannel or Q-Bus, SGI has GIO, there are lots of VME + * boxes ... * This flag is set if a EISA slots are available. */ int EISA_bus = 0; Index: linux/include/asm-mips/keyboard.h diff -u linux/include/asm-mips/keyboard.h:1.1.1.1 linux/include/asm-mips/keyboard.h:1.2 --- linux/include/asm-mips/keyboard.h:1.1.1.1 Sat May 31 20:17:13 1997 +++ linux/include/asm-mips/keyboard.h Sat Jun 14 15:56:54 1997 @@ -6,6 +6,8 @@ * for more details. * * This file is a mess. Put on your peril sensitive glasses. + * + * $Id:$ */ #ifndef __ASM_MIPS_KEYBOARD_H #define __ASM_MIPS_KEYBOARD_H @@ -81,23 +83,10 @@ void (*kbd_outb_p)(unsigned char data, unsigned short port); void (*kbd_outb)(unsigned char data, unsigned short port); -#if defined(CONFIG_MIPS_JAZZ) || defined(CONFIG_SGI) -/* - * We want the full initialization for the keyboard controller. - */ - -/* XXX Define both and ... */ #ifdef CONFIG_MIPS_JAZZ #define INIT_KBD /* full initialization for the keyboard controller. */ -#define __khtype keyboard_hardware -#endif -#ifdef CONFIG_SGI -#define INIT_KBD /* full initialization for the keyboard controller. */ -#define __khtype struct hpc_keyb -#endif - -static volatile __khtype *kh; +static volatile keyboard_hardware *jazz_kh; static int jazz_kbd_inb_p(unsigned short port) @@ -105,12 +94,10 @@ int result; if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) - result = kh->data; + result = jazz_kh->data; else /* Must be KBD_STATUS_REG */ - result = kh->command; -#ifndef CONFIG_SGI + result = jazz_kh->command; inb(0x80); -#endif return result; } @@ -121,9 +108,9 @@ int result; if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) - result = kh->data; + result = jazz_kh->data; else /* Must be KBD_STATUS_REG */ - result = kh->command; + result = jazz_kh->command; return result; } @@ -132,24 +119,50 @@ jazz_kbd_outb_p(unsigned char data, unsigned short port) { if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) - kh->data = data; + jazz_kh->data = data; else if(port == KBD_CNTL_REG) - kh->command = data; -#ifndef CONFIG_SGI + jazz_kh->command = data; inb(0x80); -#endif } static void jazz_kbd_outb(unsigned char data, unsigned short port) { if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) - kh->data = data; + jazz_kh->data = data; else if(port == KBD_CNTL_REG) - kh->command = data; + jazz_kh->command = data; } #endif /* CONFIG_MIPS_JAZZ */ +#ifdef CONFIG_SGI +#define INIT_KBD /* full initialization for the keyboard controller. */ + +static volatile struct hpc_keyb *sgi_kh; + +static int +sgi_kbd_inb(unsigned short port) +{ + int result; + + if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) + result = sgi_kh->data; + else /* Must be KBD_STATUS_REG */ + result = sgi_kh->command; + + return result; +} + +static void +sgi_kbd_outb(unsigned char data, unsigned short port) +{ + if(port == KBD_DATA_REG) + sgi_kh->data = data; + else if(port == KBD_CNTL_REG) + sgi_kh->command = data; +} +#endif /* CONFIG_SGI */ + /* * Most other MIPS machines access the keyboard controller via * ordinary I/O ports. @@ -178,14 +191,11 @@ return outb(data, port); } -static inline void kb_wait(void); -static int send_data(unsigned char data); - extern __inline__ void keyboard_setup(void) { #ifdef CONFIG_MIPS_JAZZ if (mips_machgroup == MACH_GROUP_JAZZ) { - kh = (void *) JAZZ_KEYBOARD_ADDRESS; + jazz_kh = (void *) JAZZ_KEYBOARD_ADDRESS; kbd_inb_p = jazz_kbd_inb_p; kbd_inb = jazz_kbd_inb; kbd_outb_p = jazz_kbd_outb_p; @@ -211,18 +221,14 @@ kbd_outb_p = port_kbd_outb_p; kbd_outb = port_kbd_outb; request_region(0x60,16,"keyboard"); - - kb_wait(); - kbd_outb(0x60, 0x64); /* 60 == PS/2 MODE ?? */ - kb_wait(); - kbd_outb(0x41, 0x60); /* 4d:same as freebsd, 41:KCC+EKI */ - kb_wait(); - if (!send_data(0xf0) || !send_data(0x02)) - printk("Scanmode 2 change failed\n"); } #ifdef CONFIG_SGI - if (mips_machgroup == MACH_SGI_INDY) { - kh = (struct hpc_keyb *) (KSEG1 + 0x1fbd9800 + 64); + if (mips_machgroup == MACH_GROUP_SGI) { + sgi_kh = (struct hpc_keyb *) (KSEG1 + 0x1fbd9800 + 64); + kbd_inb_p = sgi_kbd_inb; + kbd_inb = sgi_kbd_inb; + kbd_outb_p = sgi_kbd_outb; + kbd_outb = sgi_kbd_outb; } #endif } From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 15 16:21:24 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA21228; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:21:24 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA01793 for linux-list; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:19:21 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA01786 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:19:18 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA21309 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:19:15 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02801; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:54:36 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:54:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com cc: ralf@Julia.DE, Mike Shaver Subject: A pointed question about endianness... In-Reply-To: <199706140312.WAA17152@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1179 Lines: 32 I'm going to repeat this question because I still haven't gotten a firm answer. As previously discussed, there are good reasons to produce a kernel which can handle bi-endianness. But, as Mike says, just not this week... As we speak, Ralf has produced a batch of MIPS LSB binaries that would be glorious to be able to run. The kernel that Mike Shaver and I have is MSB, as are our kernel, cross-compiler and rudamentary binaries. I believe this is because we're branching off of Dave M's work. But, can we please agree on one endianness? I don't care which it is, so long as we all agree. Mike and I are quite willing to give up MSB. My proposal is to use Ralf's LSB binaries as a launchpad[1], and produce only LSB binaries until we get bi-endianness going. Also, Ralf, could you put up a binary of your kernel and a tar ball of your root fs? - Alex [1] Which are mirrored on ftp://ftp.engsoc.carleton.ca/pub/mips if you're having problems getting them from .de. That is, until whatever.sgi.com is setup. Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 15 17:22:14 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA06251; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:22:14 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA11153 for linux-list; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:21:53 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA11144 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:21:49 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA26189 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:21:44 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA23535; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:17:07 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706160017.CAA23535@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id CAA17134; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:17:04 +0200 Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 02:17:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, shaver@engsoc.carleton.ca In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Jun 15, 97 06:54:36 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2001 Lines: 42 > As we speak, Ralf has produced a batch of MIPS LSB binaries that would be > glorious to be able to run. The kernel that Mike Shaver and I have is > MSB, as are our kernel, cross-compiler and rudamentary binaries. I > believe this is because we're branching off of Dave M's work. > > But, can we please agree on one endianness? I don't care which it is, so > long as we all agree. Mike and I are quite willing to give up MSB. > > My proposal is to use Ralf's LSB binaries as a launchpad[1], and produce > only LSB binaries until we get bi-endianness going. Well, the point in a bi-endian kernel is that it will give us the possibility of running binaries with the opposite byteorder of the kernel. We don't have that feature available right now, so we're bound to whatever byteorder the kernel is running. Which again is fixed on many machines. This means that for now we'll have to build both little endian and big endian binaries; on SGI we'll only be able to execute big endian binaries. I think your missunderstood that bi-endianess gives us the possibility to execute binaries of both endianess concurrently on the same kernel. It does that but it also give us at all the possibility to run binaries of the other byteorder. So your proposal is currently technically not possible. Btw, question to the SGI gurus - is the kernel byteorder of SGI machines be reconfigurable? > Also, Ralf, could you put up a binary of your kernel and a tar ball of > your root fs? Ok, I'll put it on http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~linux/vmlinux-2.1.42-pre3.gz. Not on kernel.panic because I've run out of disk space. Feel free to put it on your ftp server. My root fs is definately to big for upload over a 14.4k line, so stay tuned. > [1] Which are mirrored on ftp://ftp.engsoc.carleton.ca/pub/mips if you're > having problems getting them from .de. That is, until whatever.sgi.com is > setup. Hmm... Ariel, Larry or whoever knows about that - what is the current state of linux.sgi.com? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 00:31:02 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA05717; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:31:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA27803 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:30:39 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA27792 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:30:36 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id JAA20094; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:30:33 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id JAA00979; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:30:23 +0200 Message-ID: <33A4EB8F.237C@munich.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:30:23 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel de Icaza CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. References: <199706131455.JAA11578@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1262 Lines: 30 Miguel de Icaza wrote: > > Hello guys, > > I am running into a little problem. The binary gcc that is > available on the free software collection is for Irix 5.3 and the > include files that are packaged with it are not quite ok for Irix 6.2 > > I do not have a native cc, so this is kind of problematic :-) > > Miguel. Miguel, if you took the stuff from Ariels home page, don't worry about the "5.3" stuff. It is basically the only way to build an "official" gcc for 6.x. Otherwise, the stuff is binary compatible. As for the header files, what is the problem? Errors, or incompleteness? Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 01:03:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA08355; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:03:32 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA05629 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:03:07 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA05610 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:03:02 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id KAA20818; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:02:59 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id KAA02461; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:02:46 +0200 Message-ID: <33A4F325.7DE1@munich.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:02:45 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David S. Miller" CC: ariel@sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. References: <199706141735.NAA04790@jenolan.caipgeneral> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1293 Lines: 27 David S. Miller wrote: > > From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) > Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) > > And finally there's "fix_headers" - the utility that comes with gcc > and fixes headers so they can be used with some gcc conventions and > extensions to C. Combine this with our multi-standard headers > which I suspect the designers of "fix_headers" never thought of and > you get a pretty cool mess :-) > > Which is why in gcc-2.8.0 a completely new fix_headers.irix will > exist which handles it all properly... This is why we all eagerly wait to see an official release of 2.8 :-) Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 05:00:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA16553; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:00:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA28974 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:59:37 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA28964 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:59:34 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA07918 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:50:47 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04650; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:42:14 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706161142.NAA04650@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id NAA19534; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:42:08 +0200 Subject: Re: gcc for Irix. To: knobi@munich.sgi.com (Martin Knoblauch) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:42:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu, ariel@sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <33A4F325.7DE1@munich.sgi.com> from "Martin Knoblauch" at Jun 16, 97 10:02:45 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 687 Lines: 16 > > And finally there's "fix_headers" - the utility that comes with gcc > > and fixes headers so they can be used with some gcc conventions and > > extensions to C. Combine this with our multi-standard headers > > which I suspect the designers of "fix_headers" never thought of and > > you get a pretty cool mess :-) > > > > Which is why in gcc-2.8.0 a completely new fix_headers.irix will > > exist which handles it all properly... > > This is why we all eagerly wait to see an official release of 2.8 :-) Let things settle down a bit. I tried to install a snapshot some days ago and had problems to bootstrap the compiler. The thin is still pretty buggy. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 07:42:31 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA20735; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:42:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA17881 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:41:13 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA17855 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:41:09 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA03421 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:39:32 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA03690; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:28:22 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706161428.QAA03690@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id QAA20906; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:28:18 +0200 Subject: GCC 2.7.2-4 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:28:16 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently-To: Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 151 Lines: 6 Hi all, GCC 2.7.2 does not build and install the files crtbegin{S}.o / crtend{S}.o that GNU libc 2.0.4 needs. I'll post a new GCC patch rsn. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 15 20:32:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA07619; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:32:07 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA00673 for linux-list; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:31:38 -0700 Received: from soyuz.wellington.sgi.com (soyuz.wellington.sgi.com [134.14.64.194]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA00654 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:31:32 -0700 Received: from windy.wellington.sgi.com by soyuz.wellington.sgi.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA26274; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:29:59 +1200 Received: (alambie@localhost) by windy.wellington.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA15784; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:30:34 +1200 From: "Alistair Lambie" Message-Id: <9706161530.ZM15792@windy.wellington.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:30:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ralf Baechle "Re: A pointed question about endianness..." (Jun 16, 12:21pm) References: <199706160017.CAA23535@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Ralf Baechle , adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, shaver@engsoc.carleton.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 683 Lines: 21 On Jun 16, 12:21pm, Ralf Baechle wrote: > Btw, question to the SGI gurus - is the kernel byteorder of SGI machines > be reconfigurable? > As the guys in the US won't be in for a while yet..... My belief is that Indy's were designed to require a PROM change. I have also heard that there was a problem running NT that required some mods to the boards. These were never released to the field. So the answer is yes, but in practice no! Cheers, Alistair -- Alistair Lambie alambie@wellington.sgi.com Silicon Graphics New Zealand SGI Voicemail: 56791 Level 5, Walsh Wrightson Tower, Ph: +64-4-802 1455 94-96 Dixon St, Wellington, NZ Fax: +64-4-802 1459 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 10:34:24 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA02675; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:34:24 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA18180 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:34:01 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA18166 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:33:58 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA14313; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:33:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:33:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199706161733.KAA14313@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Userland loader / run time loader In-Reply-To: <199706140312.WAA17152@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> References: <199706140312.WAA17152@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1423 Lines: 29 Miguel de Icaza writes: > > > To address the needs of us lowly folk who have fewer than 2 MIPS boxes[1], > > which endian are we going to be supporting first? It would be _very_ > > pleasant to be able to run all these binaries that Ralf has prepared. > > Some time ago, someone mentioned that making the kernel support both > big endian and little endian binaries in RISC/os consumed too much of > their time. > > The time we will spend trying to get this bloating hack into the > kernel could be easily spent on some more productive things. I reported on the RISC/os experience. It wasn't so much that it took too much time, but rather that it was hard to support on the SVR3 kernel interface, due to the messy definition of the streams interface at the system call level. It is much easier if you can assume only dynamically linked binaries, as in SVR4, and you can do much (although not all) of the work in user mode, and much of the rest of the work can happen as a side-effect of copyin/copyout. > I will put together a root file system and a bunch of rpms soonish > (ie, that is, as soon as I boot my Indy into Linux). That is clearly more expedient than trying to do bi-endian binary support. Once the source-level endian issues are resolved (and most should already be resolved in any GNU sources), having both litte- and big-endian binaries and file systems is fairly simple. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 10:54:35 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA03699; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:34 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA27708 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:20 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA27684; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:17 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA14400; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:54:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199706161754.KAA14400@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, Mike Shaver Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... In-Reply-To: References: <199706140312.WAA17152@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 999 Lines: 21 Alex deVries writes: > > I'm going to repeat this question because I still haven't gotten a firm > answer. > > As previously discussed, there are good reasons to produce a kernel which > can handle bi-endianness. But, as Mike says, just not this week... > > As we speak, Ralf has produced a batch of MIPS LSB binaries that would be > glorious to be able to run. The kernel that Mike Shaver and I have is > MSB, as are our kernel, cross-compiler and rudamentary binaries. I > believe this is because we're branching off of Dave M's work. > > But, can we please agree on one endianness? I don't care which it is, so > long as we all agree. Mike and I are quite willing to give up MSB. You probably can't agree on one, unless you can agree on one set of systems. Most MIPS architecture systems, including all SGI systems, are big-endian, but all DEC systems and all MIPS Magnum 4000 systems configured to run NT are little-endian. (All other MIPS systems are big-endian.) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 10:57:14 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA03494; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:14 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA28668 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:57:02 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA28654; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:56:59 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA14413; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:56:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:56:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199706161756.KAA14413@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: "Alistair Lambie" Cc: Ralf Baechle , adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries), linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, shaver@engsoc.carleton.ca Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... In-Reply-To: <9706161530.ZM15792@windy.wellington.sgi.com> References: <199706160017.CAA23535@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> <9706161530.ZM15792@windy.wellington.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 818 Lines: 20 Alistair Lambie writes: > On Jun 16, 12:21pm, Ralf Baechle wrote: > > Btw, question to the SGI gurus - is the kernel byteorder of SGI machines > > be reconfigurable? > > > > As the guys in the US won't be in for a while yet..... > > My belief is that Indy's were designed to require a PROM change. I have also > heard that there was a problem running NT that required some mods to the > boards. > These were never released to the field. > > So the answer is yes, but in practice no! ... Indy never ran anything little-endian, although the memory controller could in principle support it. The rest of the system probably would not work correctly. As far as I know, only the MIPS Magnum systems really work both ways. (They actually work better little-endian, but most were shipped big-endian.) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 14:23:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA11217; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:23:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA27607 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:23:06 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA27597; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:23:04 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA08606; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:22:55 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08006; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:50 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706162118.XAA08006@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id XAA22061; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:43 +0200 Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@Julia.DE, shaver@engsoc.carleton.ca In-Reply-To: <199706161754.KAA14400@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Jun 16, 97 10:54:16 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 535 Lines: 12 > You probably can't agree on one, unless you can agree on one set > of systems. Most MIPS architecture systems, including all SGI > systems, are big-endian, but all DEC systems and all MIPS Magnum 4000 > systems configured to run NT are little-endian. (All other MIPS > systems are big-endian.) It's worse than that. SNI RM series is configurable, Algorithmics eval boards are configurable. Acer PICA (derived from the Magnum) is le only, Sony machines are fixed to be, Deskstation MIPS machines are fixed to le ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 16:25:39 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA01789; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:25:38 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA05330 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:25:03 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA05320 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:25:00 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA19116 for linux; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:25:00 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706162325.QAA19116@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Good news: no more begging for HW To: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 846 Lines: 22 [Some good news I wanted to share with all] Bill Fisher and I are just returning from a meeting w/ Todd Johnson. Bottom line is that he agreed to commit for 5 machines/year (or "even 10 if you need it") for free-software initiatives including Linux. It is up to us (mainly this mailing list subscribers) to find the right people who are willing to work on SGI ports and projects and Todd will fund the hardware we need. Of course every system will need to be justified based on the developer's reputation and ability and the suggested project at hand. So, if you know of good people who can sign-up for real useful projects in return for hardware donations please share it with me. The three machines we have out are just a start. Looks like I won't have to spend so much time begging for donations in the coming months. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 17:17:02 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA17193; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:17:01 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA19804 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:16:34 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA19793 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:16:32 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA20491 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:16:27 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA12560 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:12:35 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706170012.CAA12560@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id CAA22414; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:12:31 +0200 Subject: ARC question To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:12:29 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 630 Lines: 15 Hi, I've got a question about the ARCS firmware as implemented on SGI. Is there some documentation available for it? I've got a documentation of the ARC standard v1.0 from the ACE consortium (the document is marked "Microsoft Confidential") as well as the "Portable Bootloader Specification" which again ist M$ confidential. These documents however don't seem to fit SGI's machines to well as they're refering to EISA slots, little endian byteorder and NT as OS and generally looked a bit outdated even when I got them two years ago. So I suppose there is documention that is more authoritative for the SGI firmware? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 17:34:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA18508; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:34:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA24131 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:33:09 -0700 Received: from titian.engr.sgi.com (titian.engr.sgi.com [150.166.240.38]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA24126; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:33:07 -0700 Received: from localhost by titian.engr.sgi.com via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id RAA10832; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:33:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199706170033.RAA10832@titian.engr.sgi.com> To: Ralf Baechle cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:40 +0200." <199706162118.XAA08006@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:32:56 -0700 From: Mike McDonald Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 882 Lines: 24 >From: Ralf Baechle >Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... >To: wje@fir (William J. Earl) >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:18:40 +0200 (MET DST) > >> You probably can't agree on one, unless you can agree on one set >> of systems. Most MIPS architecture systems, including all SGI >> systems, are big-endian, but all DEC systems and all MIPS Magnum 4000 >> systems configured to run NT are little-endian. (All other MIPS >> systems are big-endian.) > >It's worse than that. SNI RM series is configurable, Algorithmics eval >boards are configurable. > > Ralf Is anyone working on the Algorithmics boards? We have 5 of them over here currently being used with VxWorks (which isn't officially supported on these boards). I could cause lots of trouble over here if Linux did work on them. :-) Mike McDonald mikemac@engr.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 17:54:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA20209; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:54:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA29968 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:53:51 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA29951 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:53:49 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA19808; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:53:48 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706170053.RAA19808@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: ARC question To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706170012.CAA12560@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> from "Ralf Baechle" at Jun 17, 97 02:12:29 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1360 Lines: 39 : :Hi, : :I've got a question about the ARCS firmware as implemented on SGI. Is :there some documentation available for it? I've got a documentation of :the ARC standard v1.0 from the ACE consortium (the document is marked :"Microsoft Confidential") as well as the "Portable Bootloader Specification" :which again ist M$ confidential. These documents however don't seem to :fit SGI's machines to well as they're refering to EISA slots, little :endian byteorder and NT as OS and generally looked a bit outdated even :when I got them two years ago. : :So I suppose there is documention that is more authoritative for the SGI :firmware? : : Ralf : The documentation that comes with the Indy includes all the PROM commands. I gave my hard-copy "system administration" book to Mike when he was visiting here, but it should also be on every IRIX CD in "Insight" (SGI old help) format. Clicking on "Help" in the desktop toolchest should lead you to the docs. But, it gets even better (I hope). All our docs are online on the web outside the firewall. http://www.sgi.com/techpubs/dynaweb_docs/0630/SGIindex/bks.html Or more specifically (on the ARC PROM): http://www.sgi.com/cgi-bin/infosrch.cgi?cmd=getdoc&db=bks&fname=/SGI_Admin/IA_ConfigOps/10117 And also, please check "man prom" Let me know if you need more than what's in there. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 18:02:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA20547; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:02:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA02687 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:01:49 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA02668; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:01:43 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA00084; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:01:33 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA18692; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:57:11 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706170057.CAA18692@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id CAA22488; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:57:07 +0200 Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... To: mikemac@titian.engr.sgi.com (Mike McDonald) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:57:04 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706170033.RAA10832@titian.engr.sgi.com> from "Mike McDonald" at Jun 16, 97 05:32:56 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 678 Lines: 15 > Is anyone working on the Algorithmics boards? We have 5 of them over > here currently being used with VxWorks (which isn't officially > supported on these boards). I could cause lots of trouble over here if > Linux did work on them. :-) Me, I've got a P4032 donated by Algorithmics here. The port hasn't yet reached a state where I'd be pround of it, but bascially it works diskless. Some guys from a Silicon Valley company are currently also porting Linux to that port, supported but otherwise mostly independant from me. They're using similar board from Algorithmics which is based on a R5000 derivate. Ok, patch 2.1.43 just has been released. **Input** ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 18:07:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA12718; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:07:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA04118 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:51 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA04069 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:46 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA19946; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:41 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706170106.SAA19946@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706170046.CAA17216@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> from "Ralf Baechle" at Jun 17, 97 02:46:04 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 868 Lines: 27 : :Ariel, : :that's great news. Just send all the hardware to me ;-) : :Jokes aside, I was thinking since some time if the FSF wouldn't be a :great place to install some machines. Another suggestion would be :Thomas Bogendoerfer who already wrote a network driver for the Mips :Magnum 4000 and others for Intel/Alpha. I guess he might also be :interested. : If you know interested people in the FSF (real names) please have them email me with a short justification why they want the machines and what will they use them for. Same for Thomas. I cannot promise anything since there may be some oversubscription to the service :-) I think the fairest way would be to publish all these requests on this forum and have the people who care (us) vote on who should get them. I certainly don't want to be the fascist person who decides who gets what. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 18:13:12 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA20565; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:13:12 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA05507 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:12:57 -0700 Received: from titian.engr.sgi.com (titian.engr.sgi.com [150.166.240.38]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA05500; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:12:54 -0700 Received: from localhost by titian.engr.sgi.com via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id SAA10919; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:12:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199706170112.SAA10919@titian.engr.sgi.com> To: Ralf Baechle cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:57:04 +0200." <199706170057.CAA18692@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:12:43 -0700 From: Mike McDonald Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 746 Lines: 20 >From: Ralf Baechle >Subject: Re: A pointed question about endianness... >To: mikemac (Mike McDonald) >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:57:04 +0200 (MET DST) > >> Is anyone working on the Algorithmics boards? We have 5 of them over >> here currently being used with VxWorks (which isn't officially >> supported on these boards). I could cause lots of trouble over here if >> Linux did work on them. :-) > >Me, I've got a P4032 donated by Algorithmics here. The port hasn't yet >reached a state where I'd be pround of it, but bascially it works >diskless. That's the beast. So, when are you going to stop messing around with those Indies and start doing some real work? :-) Mike McDonald mikemac@engr.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 18:54:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA22123; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA14829 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:14 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA14822 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:12 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA20454 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:11 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA14804 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:10 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA10215 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:54:08 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA01209; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:53:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:53:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Ariel Faigon cc: Ralf Baechle , linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW In-Reply-To: <199706170106.SAA19946@yon.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1267 Lines: 31 Ariel wrote: > I think the fairest way would be to publish all these > requests on this forum and have the people who care (us) > vote on who should get them. I certainly don't want to > be the fascist person who decides who gets what. Well... I hate to be the first to jump in pleading for hardware, but I could really use it. To date, the only SGI I have access to is bogomips.ingenia.ca, which is Mike Shaver's machine in Ottawa. This is difficult, as I can't do anything hardware related, or anything involving rebooting, etc. Plus, bandwidth is a frequent problem. I've always been interested in working with the application side of things (particularly, porting all of RedHat 4.2), but I'd like to get involved in other things, such as an X server and filesystem support. Despite my email address, I actually reside in Boston. I just administer engsoc.carleton.ca in Ottawa remotely in my spare time (and quite creatively, too, might I add). Oh, and my vote is on getting Ralf an SGI, if he doesn't have one already. I'm not quite sure what the future is like for bogomips.ingenia.com. - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 19:08:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA22805; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA17776 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:29 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA17769 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:27 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA20628 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:15 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA17751 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:14 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA12593 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:08:12 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08488; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA00413; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:01:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:01:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199706170201.WAA00413@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: ariel@sgi.com CC: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706170106.SAA19946@yon.engr.sgi.com> (ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1694 Lines: 37 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:41 -0700 (PDT) I cannot promise anything since there may be some oversubscription to the service :-) I think the fairest way would be to publish all these requests on this forum and have the people who care (us) vote on who should get them. I certainly don't want to be the fascist person who decides who gets what. Before this gets out of control, I just want to express one sentiment of high caution. Although it may seem desirable to contribute most of the donation hardware to kernel level hackers, this can be a mistake in the making. At this stage in the game it is just as important to get userland/libc developers machines. Therefore I suggest that at least one person who knows GNU libc, binutils, _and_ gcc internals backwards and forwards be on the top of the donation list. If I were asked for such a candidate, I would recommend Richard Henderson (rth@stommel.tamu.edu) He has done the Alpha/Linux port, he designed an ELF standard for 64-bit Alpha from scratch with no existing standard available, he is doing the same exact thing for 64-bit SparcLinux at the moment as well. Not having a good libc/userland person in this port is why I lost half my summer last year and was not able to hack the kernel as much as I really would have liked to at all... ---------------------------------------------//// Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & //// 199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s //// ethernet. Beat that! //// -----------------------------------------////__________ o David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ >< From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 19:25:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA23120; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA21024 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:27 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA21012 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:25 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (gate5-neteng.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.33]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA20799 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA23023; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199706170225.TAA23023@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle), linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:25:17 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 496 Lines: 16 : I think the fairest way would be to publish all these : requests on this forum and have the people who care (us) : vote on who should get them. I certainly don't want to : be the fascist person who decides who gets what. A nice facist is a good thing. Voting assumes that everyone has enough info which may or may not be the case. I'd suggest that each person that wants a machine fills out a little form that says who am i? what will i do w/ the machine? when will it be done? --lm From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 21:00:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA19529; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:00:22 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA02238 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:59:09 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA02233 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:59:07 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id UAA25434; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:59:06 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706162059.ZM25432@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:59:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) "Good news: no more begging for HW" (Jun 16, 4:25pm) References: <199706162325.QAA19116@yon.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1765 Lines: 44 On Jun 16, 4:25pm, Ariel Faigon wrote: > Subject: Good news: no more begging for HW > [Some good news I wanted to share with all] > > Bill Fisher and I are just returning from a meeting w/ > Todd Johnson. Bottom line is that he agreed to commit > for 5 machines/year (or "even 10 if you need it") for > free-software initiatives including Linux. It is up to > us (mainly this mailing list subscribers) to find the right > people who are willing to work on SGI ports and projects and > Todd will fund the hardware we need. Of course every system > will need to be justified based on the developer's reputation > and ability and the suggested project at hand. > > So, if you know of good people who can sign-up for > real useful projects in return for hardware donations > please share it with me. The three machines we have out > are just a start. > > Looks like I won't have to spend so much time begging > for donations in the coming months. > > -- > Peace, Ariel >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon One group that I always think could use an SGI machine is the Free Software Foundation. They would make sure things worked on SGI before releasing it. That way, all of GNU would be tested on SGI by them. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 22:32:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA03129; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA10936 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:41 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA10929 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:39 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA21266 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:38 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA10920; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:37 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA08863; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:32:35 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA14916; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:31:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: Larry McVoy cc: Ariel Faigon , Ralf Baechle , linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW In-Reply-To: <199706170225.TAA23023@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2060 Lines: 52 Although I've posted before, I'll fill out the 'form' for reference. Excuse the verbosity. On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Larry McVoy wrote: > who am i? Professionally, I'm a software engineer for IAC in Boston, MA, where I do work with large databases. I've also worked with TimeStep in Ottawa doing VPN's and IPSEC, and NorTel/BNR doing very quirkly large scale revision control tools. Lots of Unix and IP experience in this. But, Linux experience comes from a project called EngSoc, which I started and maintain almost solely at Carleton University in Ottawa two years ago. It provides full Linux access for 1,500 users on 20 machines in under $8,000US annually. We have done a lot of hardware recovery, and, er, creative implementations. I've donated 30 hours a week maintaining and expanding the system for the last two years, but it's time to move on to something newer, like SGI-Linux. I have a lot of varied experience with Unices (Solaris, SunOS, Linux, Net/FreeBSD, HPUX, OSx (oooh... SVR3 and BSD, in the same OS), Irix, etc) and VMS, and the porting that goes along with it. So, clearly, I don't have nearly the experience that some people on the list do with low level kernel authority (eg. Ralf, who must dream in MIPS assembler), but I am committed to this project and have been since I first heard of it. > what will i do w/ the machine? Mostly, concentrate on userspace applications, although certainly I will help test and debug kernels, gcc and libc. I'd like to concentrate on porting all RPM's I can get my hands on, with a concentration on RedHat 4.2. I'm also interested in getting an X server running smoothly on it, as well as getting native file system support running well. So far, my work has been on Mike's bogomips.ingenia.ca, but I can't do much more without having physical access. > when will it be done? It depends. I suspect most of the common userland ports can be done over three months, but there'll be subsequent releases, updates, etc. I will be happy when RedHat releases an official Linux/SGI CD. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 16 23:23:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA05864; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:23:22 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA15690 for linux-list; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:23:03 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA15685 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:23:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA04075; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:22:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199706170622.XAA04075@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: "Christopher W. Carlson" From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:22:58 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 270 Lines: 5 : One group that I always think could use an SGI machine is the Free : Software Foundation. They would make sure things worked on SGI before : releasing it. That way, all of GNU would be tested on SGI by them. This is a good idea. Do we know if they don't have one? From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 01:16:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA09662; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:16:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA29636 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:15:58 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA29632 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:15:57 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA21632 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:15:43 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id KAA06254; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:15:33 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id KAA07702; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:15:30 +0200 Message-ID: <33A647A1.2781@munich.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:15:29 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ariel Faigon CC: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW References: <199706162325.QAA19116@yon.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 988 Lines: 19 Ok, so let me chime in. There are the people with the KDE desktop (http://www.kde.org/) environment. They gave a presentation at the Linux Konference in Wuerzburg. If we want to do some non-kernel stuff, they might be a good choice. Maybe even for IRIX :-) I will have to contact them to find out whether they are interested. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 02:54:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA14779; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:54:48 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA06686 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:53:23 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA06681; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:53:20 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id CAA08706; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:50:40 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA08823; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:46:10 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706170946.LAA08823@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id LAA24022; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:46:07 +0200 Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:46:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706170622.XAA04075@neteng.engr.sgi.com> from "Larry McVoy" at Jun 16, 97 11:22:58 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 621 Lines: 15 > : One group that I always think could use an SGI machine is the Free > : Software Foundation. They would make sure things worked on SGI before > : releasing it. That way, all of GNU would be tested on SGI by them. > > This is a good idea. Do we know if they don't have one? Somewhen RMS mentioned that they don't have MIPS machines. Aside of PCs their equipment seems to consinst of ancient 68k Sony NeWS machines, an Amiga, old HP machines and other exotic equipment. I think they also have an Alpha. But all in all they are for shure among the people that will make best possible use of the hardware. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 04:32:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA15635; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:32:16 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA12443 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:31:56 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA12439 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:31:54 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA20185 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:31:53 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA20612 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA04952; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:26:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:26:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199706171126.HAA04952@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: [jim@geog.ubc.ca: Meta-FAQ: IMPORTANT UPDATE] Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 6549 Lines: 174 Thank heavens SGI isn't as bad as Sun and SparcInternational... The EFF and various others have been contacted on this, it is a real shame and quite frankly, I hope SI and Sun both rot for this stunt... ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: Jim Mintha Subject: Meta-FAQ: IMPORTANT UPDATE To: sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu, sparc-list@redhat.com, debian-sparc@lists.debian.org Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:47:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk ANNOUNCEMENT: - ------------- SPARC International's lawyers have the view that the terms SPARC/Linux or Linux/SPARC (or most other variations) constitute an infringement of SI's trademark. They would deem "Linux for SPARC Processors" as acceptable. They also object to the use of the word "sparc" in any part of a URL. So for example the url: "http://www.geog.ubc.ca/sparc/howto/netboot.html" is a trademark infringement. So while I feel that they have absolutely no right to dictate what I can call my subdirectories, I don't really have the time to argue legal issues with a bunch of lawyers, nor do I own the equipment so ultimately the decision isn't mine anyway. I will be changing the reference on the web pages, as well as changing any URLs to avoid using the word "sparc". For convenience I will refer to "Linux for SPARC Processors" as S/Linux (The "S" of course, standing for "Super") The main URL for the web page is now: http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html If you happen to type the old URL my web server will get confused and redirect you to the new URL. (I have no idea why :^) The same for any of the other pages. Jim - ------------- Linux for SPARC Processors Meta-FAQ Last Updated: 97/06/17 Send comments/corrections to: Jim Mintha (mintha@geog.ubc.ca) This is the Meta-FAQ for the Linux for SPARC Processors project (hereafter referred to as S/Linux - "S" for "Super"). It is mainly a list of pointers to other sources of information, FTP sites, etc. 1. What is S/Linux? S/Linux is a port of the Linux operating system to the SPARC platform, specifically to Sun SPARCstations. This is not a "new" version of Linux, it is a port that is integrated into the normal distribution kernel tree. The user level interface and most of the kernel is still the same. Only machine-dependent parts of the kernel have changed. Also - MOST IMPORTANT - this effort is a work-in-progress. Its current status is still beta! Sure a lot of the time it seems more stable than Sun's OS but there are NO GUARANTEES. There now is a ready made distribution, but there are no toll-free support lines, or 300 page installation manuals! If you want to get involved you have to expect to work through some problems on your own! 2. Where can I find more information about the project? The best place to start is the S/Linux WWW Home Page: - http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux.html It has: - Pointers to the FAQ and HOW-TOs - Mailing List info and archives - Recent news and announcements - List of FTP sites, mirrors, etc. Information on the RedHat S/Linux Distribution can be found: - http://www.redhat.com/products/rhl-sparc.html Addition information can be found at: - http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/linux/ 3. How do I boot Linux on my Sparc Computer? Right now the easiest way is to install the RedHat S/Linux distribution. This is a full release of the RedHat distribution which you can purchase on CD or install via FTP. For more information see found at: - http://www.redhat.com/products/rhl-sparc.html 4. How do I solve problems booting/installing/running S/Linux? You should first look at the FAQ: - http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux/faq.html For problems booting you can look at the HOWTOs: - http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux/howto.html For problems with the RedHat distribution, there is an errata page: - http://www.redhat.com/RedHat-Errata That failing join one of the mailing lists and ask for some help. 4. What are the main FTP sites: RedHat Distribution: -------------------- Main RedHat FTP site: ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-4.1 Some mirrors: (see ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/MIRRORS) - ftp://ftp.xtn.net/pub/linux/redhat/redhat-4.1 - ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/redhat-4.1 - ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Redhat/redhat-4.1 - ftp://ftp-nog.rutgers.edu/pub/linux/distributions/redhat/redhat-4.1 S/Linux Development: ------------------------ The main FTP site for the project which has the recent kernel snapshots, libc development, and some utilities is: - ftp://vger.rutgers.edu/pub/linux/Sparc/ The Red Hat people have been porting their RPM packages to the sparc. These (as well as mirrors if 'vger' and 'sunsite.cz') are available at: - ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/devel/sparc/RedHat/RPMS/ Jakub Jelinek has various X11 and Openwin stuff packaged (and a lot of other stuff including mirrors of 'vger' and 'redhat'): - ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Sparc/ Current site for Debian development: - ftp://ftp.debian.org/pub/debian/hamm The latest X11 rpms, libc, dynamic linker and some extra tools are available in: - ftp://ftp.nuclecu.unam.mx/linux/Sparc-miguel/ An additional mirror of the first four sites above is: - ftp://ftp.geog.ubc.ca/pub/s_linux European Mirror Sites - ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/linux/Sparc (mirror of vger & redhat) - ftp://ftp.uni-trier.de/pub/unix/systems/linux/Sparc (mirror of first three) 5. What Mailing Lists are available for the project? There are three mailing lists devoted to the S/Linux project: sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu (main mailing list) sparc-list@redhat.com (RedHat related issues) debian-sparc@lists.debian.org (Debian related issues) For information on subscribing see: - http://www.geog.ubc.ca/s_linux/maillist.html Jim Mintha (mintha@geog.ubc.ca) Home: (604) 731-7240 Geography System Administrator Work: (604) 822-2174 Fax: 822-6150 Home Page: http://www.geog.ubc.ca/~jim/ >>> SARCAST \'sar-kast\ v. 1. To engage in the art of sarcasm <<< ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 07:41:37 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA13974; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:41:36 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA29280 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:41:01 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA29272 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:40:59 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA16624 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:40:57 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA31958 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:28:47 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706171428.KAA31958@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: bogomips To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:28:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 544 Lines: 16 Like, duh. Forgot to add the routing info to the startup bits, so only systems on the same net could see it. Since neon's one of them, I didn't notice before. It's back now, for those who care. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Commando Developer - Whatever It Takes #> #> "See, you not only have to be a good coder to create a system like #> Linux, you have to be a sneaky bastard too." - Linus Torvalds From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 09:23:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18655; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA18881 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:22:55 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18837; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:22:45 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA08413; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:22:35 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA14613; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:08:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:08:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199706171608.LAA14613@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com CC: carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706170622.XAA04075@neteng.engr.sgi.com> (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW X-Windows: Power tools for power fools. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 550 Lines: 15 > : One group that I always think could use an SGI machine is the Free > : Software Foundation. They would make sure things worked on SGI before > : releasing it. That way, all of GNU would be tested on SGI by them. > > This is a good idea. Do we know if they don't have one? An Indy machine may become the most powerfull machine at the FSF nowadays. I think their high end computers nowadays are the 486 PCs running Linux. I am not sure if the people at the FSF in Boston are actually doing any developement besides Hurd and Emacs. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 09:48:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18633; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:48:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA26633 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:47:21 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA26615 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:47:19 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA22648 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:46:52 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA26493 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:46:51 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA14797 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:46:33 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA14702; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:18:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:18:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199706171618.LAA14702@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: knobi@munich.sgi.com CC: ariel@sgi.com, linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <33A647A1.2781@munich.sgi.com> (message from Martin Knoblauch on Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:15:29 +0200) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW X-Unix: is friendly, it is just selective about who its friends are. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1224 Lines: 35 Talking about userland nice applications, two extra ideas: > so let me chime in. There are the people with the KDE desktop > (http://www.kde.org/) environment. They gave a presentation at > the Linux Konference in Wuerzburg. If we want to do some non-kernel > stuff, they might be a good choice. Maybe even for IRIX :-) GNUstep: There are a couple of extra free software projects that may benefit. One of them is the GNUstep project (do not pay attention to the web pages for the project the maintainer updates them once every six months). They have similar goals to the KDE project, but they are going for an OpenStep compliant API. scottc@net-community.com is the person who is doing the GUI code for Unix. The GIMP: There are a couple of students at UC Berkeley that wrote the GIMP (the GNU Image Manipulation Program), which is a PhotoShop on steroids. They cloned most of the functionality of Photoshop: plugins, ability to handle large images, layers, channels. And on top of that they embedded a scheme interpreter, so you can create complex graphic art by just fillling a form. The Scheme scripts take care of the rest. You can check their web page at: http://scam.xcf.berkeley.edu/~gimp Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 09:23:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18602; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:56 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA19080 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:46 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA19070 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:43 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA15059 for linux; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:13 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706170923.ZM15068@sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:23:12 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David S. Miller" "Re: Good news: no more begging for HW" (Jun 16, 10:01pm) References: <199706170201.WAA00413@jenolan.caipgeneral> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2134 Lines: 53 * $ from davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu at "16-Jun:10:01pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) * Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:06:41 -0700 (PDT) * * I cannot promise anything since there may be some oversubscription * to the service :-) * * I think the fairest way would be to publish all these requests on * this forum and have the people who care (us) vote on who should get * them. I certainly don't want to be the fascist person who decides * who gets what. * * Before this gets out of control, I just want to express one sentiment * of high caution. * * Although it may seem desirable to contribute most of the donation * hardware to kernel level hackers, this can be a mistake in the making. * At this stage in the game it is just as important to get userland/libc * developers machines. * * Therefore I suggest that at least one person who knows GNU libc, * binutils, _and_ gcc internals backwards and forwards be on the top of * the donation list. We need an X server if we are ever going to get it usable by real users---or is everyone assuming its for headles machines only. I would put an X server above most applications in terms of priority (just below native gcc/libc). Perhaps one ought to go to Xfree86/someone who knows our hardware (not to start this thread all over again). This should be very tighly focused, since an X server is a lot of work and we need a lot of them, one per board (okay in version one we could only support 1280x1024x8, but that seems a waste of all our spiffy hardware). I used to have a contact in Xfree86, but I haven't heard from him for a while. If someone takes the server, I'll try and get the clients libraries done (assuming that I can get remote access to a box). richard. ____________________________________________________________________ A Guest Signature from Laurent Duperval I don't understand why people break up and then get back together. It's like going to the fridge, taking a carton of milk that has gone bad, then saying: "I'll put it back and see if it's better tomorrow." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 10:28:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA10547; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:28:46 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA07617 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:28:28 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA07519 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:28:06 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA14811 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:25:44 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA06764 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:25:44 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA25503 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:25:36 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15321; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:10:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:10:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: offer@sgi.com CC: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <9706170923.ZM15068@sgi.com> (offer@sgi.com) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW X-Windows: The Cutting Edge of Obsolescence. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2002 Lines: 52 > If someone takes the server, I'll try and get the clients libraries done > (assuming that I can get remote access to a box). I was interested in working on the X server for the SGI. I already did that for the Linux/SPARC, and I had a couple of questions to make, so this seems like a good time to ask them (please note that I haven't actually traced my SGI X server to see what it does). 1. On the SPARC, the X server mmap()s the frame buffer into its address space and uses a couple of ioctls to talk with the kernel (to ask the kernel to change the palette and the hardware cursor, on later versions, with got rid of that, and we just poked at the frame buffer control registers from the X server). How does this work on the SGI? Is the video card just a thing that can be mapped into the X server address space? If this is the case, getting the X11R6 server to work will just take a couple of days of coding. 2. What kind of acceleration features are available on the SGI machines? The X11R6 server has hooks for different set of features, so for example, bitblit can be easily hacked into the X server. But I imagine the SGI has more acceleration features that I can dream of. 3. How does OpenGL work on the SGIs? Is the OpenGL engine embedded in the X server, or it is something that is present on the video card? I looked yesterday at a program called glxinfo, which led me to believe that applications may have some of the GL code linked in trough the libraries and the other part resides on the X server. So, in this case, what are the specs for what needs to be on the X server to be able to run OpenGL applications. 4. Would it be possible for a free software company to redistribute the SGI's X server? In that case, we could concentrate on getting the IRIX emulation as good as possible and just use the SGI X server and let Red Hat/Debian/GNU ship the cd with that binary. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 10:55:08 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20150; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:55:07 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA13439 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:54:44 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA13423 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:54:41 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA02180 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:54:38 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA01271; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:49:29 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706171749.NAA01271@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW In-Reply-To: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> from Miguel de Icaza at "Jun 17, 97 12:10:12 pm" To: miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx (Miguel de Icaza) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 878 Lines: 19 Thus spake Miguel de Icaza: > 4. Would it be possible for a free software company to redistribute > the SGI's X server? In that case, we could concentrate on getting > the IRIX emulation as good as possible and just use the SGI X > server and let Red Hat/Debian/GNU ship the cd with that binary. FWIW, I'm quite interested in working on the IRIX emulation. I picked up a bunch of stuff about the MIPS ABI at the SGI DevCon (after arriving late for Ariel's talk =(), which also looks interesting. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> UNIX medicine man -- dark magick, cheap! #> #> When the going gets tough, the tough give cryptic error messages. #> "We believe in rough consensus and running code." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 10:56:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20033; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:56:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA13992 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:56:09 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA13972 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:56:07 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA09414; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:53:12 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706171053.ZM9344@sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:53:12 -0700 In-Reply-To: Miguel de Icaza "Re: Good news: no more begging for HW" (Jun 17, 12:10pm) References: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Miguel de Icaza Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3771 Lines: 99 * $ from miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx at "17-Jun:12:10pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * * > If someone takes the server, I'll try and get the clients libraries done * > (assuming that I can get remote access to a box). * * I was interested in working on the X server for the SGI. I already * did that for the Linux/SPARC, and I had a couple of questions to make, * so this seems like a good time to ask them (please note that I haven't * actually traced my SGI X server to see what it does). The questions are good, but I'm not the person who can answer them, me I'm a Motif hacker, anything at a level lower than Xt is akin to assembler for me. So with that in mind take the rest with a pinch of salt. * * 1. On the SPARC, the X server mmap()s the frame buffer into its * address space and uses a couple of ioctls to talk with the kernel * (to ask the kernel to change the palette and the hardware cursor, * on later versions, with got rid of that, and we just poked at the * frame buffer control registers from the X server). * * How does this work on the SGI? Is the video card just a thing that * can be mapped into the X server address space? * * If this is the case, getting the X11R6 server to work will just take * a couple of days of coding. * * * 2. What kind of acceleration features are available on the SGI * machines? The X11R6 server has hooks for different set of * features, so for example, bitblit can be easily hacked into the X * server. * * But I imagine the SGI has more acceleration features that I can * dream of. The problem is that (I think) we have so many graphics cards that its done differently in every one (some cards are simple frame buffers (8/24bit), then there are some with multiple GE, oh and we also have extra visuals for overlay and pop-ups. The O2 has no graphics memory, everything is done in main memory. * * * 3. How does OpenGL work on the SGIs? Is the OpenGL engine embedded in * the X server, or it is something that is present on the video card? * * I looked yesterday at a program called glxinfo, which led me to * believe that applications may have some of the GL code linked in * trough the libraries and the other part resides on the X server. Both :-) We don't do things the way easy here. The is a GLX extension in the X server which allows GL to run in an X window. There is also I think a DSO that holds the hardware specific GL calls. * * So, in this case, what are the specs for what needs to be on the X * server to be able to run OpenGL applications. * * * 4. Would it be possible for a free software company to redistribute * the SGI's X server? In that case, we could concentrate on getting * the IRIX emulation as good as possible and just use the SGI X * server and let Red Hat/Debian/GNU ship the cd with that binary. This would be my preferred solution, but I've had many an argument on this subject that I felt very dubious about bringing it up again. To me the quickest (and the best) way of getting an X server would be if we could simply port the existing Irix X server to Linux/SGI. My suggestion would be, now that we have backing for hardware to get official backing for software. I don't think we should neccesarrily release the source code for the ddx part of the X server to the public, but we should at least be able to get backing to release .o files so the user could re-link the X server if they needed to (Sun have done this before). * * * Cheers, * Miguel. * * richard ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard M. Offer Widget FAQ --> http://reality.sgi.com/widgetFAQ MTS-Core Design (Motif) ___________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 11:18:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA19543; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:18:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA20180 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:18:29 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA20130 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:18:07 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA14934 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:15:46 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA19503 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:15:44 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA07394 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:15:29 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA15810; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:00:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:00:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199706171800.NAA15810@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: offer@sgi.com CC: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <9706171053.ZM9344@sgi.com> (offer@sgi.com) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW X-Windows: Garbage at your fingertips. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1907 Lines: 46 > * 2. What kind of acceleration features are available on the SGI > * machines? The X11R6 server has hooks for different set of > * features, so for example, bitblit can be easily hacked into the X > * server. > * > * But I imagine the SGI has more acceleration features that I can > * dream of. > > The problem is that (I think) we have so many graphics cards that its done > differently in every one (some cards are simple frame buffers (8/24bit), then > there are some with multiple GE, oh and we also have extra visuals for overlay > and pop-ups. What does "multiple GE" stand for? Supporting a wide variety of devices in X11R6 should be quite easy. This X server also can support multiple visuals on a display, so this should be easy to hack on as well. > * I looked yesterday at a program called glxinfo, which led me to > * believe that applications may have some of the GL code linked in > * trough the libraries and the other part resides on the X server. > > Both :-) We don't do things the way easy here. So OpenGL applications can run without an X server, or they have code to bypass the X server if they need to? > The is a GLX extension in the X server which allows GL to run in an X window. > > There is also I think a DSO that holds the hardware specific GL calls. Sorry, but what does DSO stand for? > To me the quickest (and the best) way of getting an X server would be if we > could simply port the existing Irix X server to Linux/SGI. My suggestion would > be, now that we have backing for hardware to get official backing for software. > I don't think we should neccesarrily release the source code for the ddx part > of the X server to the public, but we should at least be able to get backing to > release .o files so the user could re-link the X server if they needed to (Sun > have done this before). Ok. This sound good enough. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 11:32:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA21733; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:32:23 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA23732 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:31:59 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA23618 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:31:26 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA15361 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:30:43 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id UAA24535; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:30:39 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id UAA05954; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:30:36 +0200 Message-ID: <33A6D7CB.4DAA@munich.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:30:36 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel de Icaza CC: offer@sgi.com, linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW References: <199706171800.NAA15810@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1546 Lines: 43 Miguel de Icaza wrote: > > > What does "multiple GE" stand for? > GE == Geometry engine. The part of the OpenGL pipeline that does the 3D transformations, lighting and other FPU intensive stuff. Some of our GFX "card" do this stuff on the CPU (your Indy, O2, some Indigo2), but most adaptors have separate GEs. In all cases (except O2), you have no direct mapping from virtual memory into the frame buffer. > > So OpenGL applications can run without an X server, or they have code > to bypass the X server if they need to? > The apps use the Xserver to create the windows and do the window and event managment. On fast, HW accellerated adapters, they bypass the server when drawing. But they also can draw through the server (as in the remote display case). > > Sorry, but what does DSO stand for? > Dynamic Shared Object. Basically our term for Dynamic Shared Library. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 11:55:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA05507; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:55:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA01006 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:55:15 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA00740 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:54:33 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA15317 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:52:11 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA29433 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:52:10 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA16793 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:52:08 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA28390; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05887; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:45:53 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:45:53 -0400 Message-Id: <199706171845.OAA05887@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: knobi@munich.sgi.com CC: miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx, offer@sgi.com, linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <33A6D7CB.4DAA@munich.sgi.com> (message from Martin Knoblauch on Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:30:36 +0200) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 501 Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:30:36 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch GE == Geometry engine. The part of the OpenGL pipeline that does the 3D transformations, lighting and other FPU intensive stuff. How fast can these suckers assemble components along an interpolated line? Is it something like 1 component per clock at 300Mhz? (some of you might know where that rate comes from, if you do, two points for you ;-) Later, David "Sparc" Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 13:02:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA07190; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA17877 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:37 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA17858 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:35 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id NAA27103; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:19 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706171302.ZM27101@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:02:18 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: SGI machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1494 Lines: 42 Just thought I'd pass on the response that I received from Richard Stallman. --- Forwarded mail from Richard Stallman Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:17:06 -0400 From: Richard Stallman To: carlson Subject: Re: SGI machine We now have free systems running on all our machines, so we could not accept a machine that runs a non-free system like IRIX. Once you have a GNU/Linux system running, that problem would be solved. But usable machines have become pretty cheap--we could buy a 686 for the cost of paying a programmer for 2 weeks--and we have more than enough machines now for the people we have. What we mainly need nowadays is money to pay programmers. Is there any chance you could convince some part of SGI to make a donation? Or at least buy a Deluxe Distribution? We can hire a programmer for a year for just $35000 or so. ---End of forwarded mail from Richard Stallman -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 17:01:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA13758; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:01:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA22122 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:53 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA22115 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:52 -0700 Received: from blammo.engr.sgi.com (blammo.engr.sgi.com [130.62.15.51]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA15835 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:11 -0700 Received: (from jwiede@localhost) by blammo.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA11557 for linux@morgaine; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:11 -0700 From: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) Message-Id: <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> In-Reply-To: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) "Re: Good news: no more begging for HW" (Jun 17, 10:53am) References: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> <9706171053.ZM9344@sgi.com> X-Face: 'rEN+vrv,h:"?|h{Q,A@Is5T#VUFb=Kp>c]5sK@![sLA$9^UoAtgryPHsqEOv5p&09H\E:p )h:LCq-vz/dWH?Kn#A334hP4mM/**@..@TF($8<2LyeDSJqsnEnZ~O{>`EWm]QQ\>aSm9j,J_t0NF` Rt`td=N-r1R~c2}l+Q^q[bYP0d_bzVWox>.pWNi$75*m,BlJ4-X"Q`x`OUCkz/gg>pIUf|KWs6{r=J zE7[.14o:oq9Du"#C`^(MM_`?#!k:5%P4:Pfpy)5X7@fE|gq0XV(s/jUG?[>#ldY_4tG(Ng$:DRC X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2397 Lines: 48 On Jun 17, 10:53am, richard offer wrote: > * $ from miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx at "17-Jun:12:10pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" > * > * 4. Would it be possible for a free software company to redistribute > * the SGI's X server? In that case, we could concentrate on getting > * the IRIX emulation as good as possible and just use the SGI X > * server and let Red Hat/Debian/GNU ship the cd with that binary. > > This would be my preferred solution, but I've had many an argument on this > subject that I felt very dubious about bringing it up again. > > To me the quickest (and the best) way of getting an X server would be if we > could simply port the existing Irix X server to Linux/SGI. My suggestion would > be, now that we have backing for hardware to get official backing for software. > I don't think we should neccesarrily release the source code for the ddx part > of the X server to the public, but we should at least be able to get backing to > release .o files so the user could re-link the X server if they needed to (Sun > have done this before). While this appears to be an ideal solution on the surface, it has some obvious and immediate problems as well. Namely, the complete lack of the driver infrastructure to support the device-dependant layer of the Xsgi server. Given that it's unlikely we'd release the source code to our gfx drivers, there is no easily viable way to produce the drivers in the linux kernel image. Lacking the drivers, Xsgi would need some _major_ redesigns, which brings us back to Xfree-porting-level efforts needing to be expended. There are some very serious issues which come up even getting Xfree to a moderate level of acceleration. By the time you've got all the pieces in place, you are probably looking at the same device-independant -> device-dependant -> gfx-device layering that Xsgi has in place. OpenGL adds an order of magnitude of complexity to the issue. I realize this comes off as fairly negative, but I'm just trying to explain the issues involved once gfx gets added to the mix. There would need to be a buy-in at a very high level of SGI mgmt. before we could start making the hardware details of our graphics subsystems available (at least the more modern ones, such as O2, Impact, etc.). -- John Wiederhirn (DSD, Graphics Kernel MTS) jwiede@engr.sgi.com "Smithers, unleash the human insight and creativity." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 17:16:39 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA17734; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:16:38 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA25979 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:16:25 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA25975 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:16:23 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA15622 for linux; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:15:53 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706171715.ZM15632@sgi.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:15:52 -0700 In-Reply-To: jwiede@blammo (John Wiederhirn) "Re: Good news: no more begging for HW" (Jun 17, 5:00pm) References: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> <9706171053.ZM9344@sgi.com> <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 43 * $ from jwiede@blammo at "17-Jun: 5:00pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * I realize this comes off as fairly negative, but I'm just trying to explain the * issues involved once gfx gets added to the mix. There would need to be a * buy-in at a very high level of SGI mgmt. before we could start making the * hardware details of our graphics subsystems available (at least the more modern * ones, such as O2, Impact, etc.). I don't think this is being negitive, it might not be what we want to hear, but at least someone who knows about our underlying hardware is making comments. Probably the first thing to do would be to get the go ahead for a proof of concept only (under NDA) probably using an old indy. If this proves impossible from either the technical or political pov's then we need to re-think. I personaly don't think we have much chance unless we go to NDA and even then its going to be really hard to get buy-in. * * * -- * John Wiederhirn (DSD, Graphics Kernel MTS) jwiede@engr.sgi.com * "Smithers, unleash the human insight and creativity." * richard. ________________________________________________________________________ Dogbert: "From now on I will not try to reason with the idiots I encounter. I will dismiss them by waving my paw and saying 'BAH'". Dilbert: "Just because someone thinks differently from you doesn't mean he's an idiot, Dogbert". Dogbert: [waves paw], "BAH". Dilbert: 27-July-96. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 17:39:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA18134; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:39:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA00694 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:39:21 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA00687 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:39:19 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA15826 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:36:39 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA00107 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:36:38 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA07316 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:36:32 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA10448; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:32:07 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706180032.CAA10448@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id CAA28142; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:32:02 +0200 Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW To: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:32:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9706171715.ZM15632@sgi.com> from "richard offer" at Jun 17, 97 05:15:52 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 699 Lines: 14 > Probably the first thing to do would be to get the go ahead for a proof of > concept only (under NDA) probably using an old indy. If this proves impossible > from either the technical or political pov's then we need to re-think. > > I personaly don't think we have much chance unless we go to NDA and even then > its going to be really hard to get buy-in. I guess a workable model for the current technology like O2 etc. would be that SGI gives documentation out under NDA to the developer(s). After a certain time (I think about 18 month or two years) after which a product generation is obsoleted by successors the source and hopefully even the documentation may be published freely. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 17:36:18 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA18112; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:36:18 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA29606 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:26 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA29600 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:24 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA24770; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:24 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706180034.RAA24770@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Getting X on Linux/SGI To: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: linux@yon.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> from "John Wiederhirn" at Jun 17, 97 05:00:11 pm Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2074 Lines: 53 [note the change in subject] First a note to all SGI linux subscribers: There are about 10 interested parties external to SGI on this list. I just say this so you're all aware of it. : :Given that it's unlikely we'd release the source code to our gfx drivers, : Well, after getting some hardware, that's our next hurdle :-) I believe it would be a very good idea to release the Indy low-level graphics source (even under NDA, although personally, I wouldn't use NDAs) to XFree developers. I'm not even talking amazing 3D or Octane stuff here. Let's first get basic X11 running on Indys then worry about OpenGL / O2s etc. Note that this means getting the basic 2D stuff running. Heck, I can't understand the logic of anyone being so protective about 5 year technology, it is available on every PC with mid-range level graphics by now. : :I realize this comes off as fairly negative, but I'm just trying to explain the :issues involved once gfx gets added to the mix. There would need to be a :buy-in at a very high level of SGI mgmt. before we could start making the :hardware details of our graphics subsystems available (at least the more modern :ones, such as O2, Impact, etc.). : John, lest I sound negative, I don't mean to. I hope all the people on this list can agree on such obvious things. I hope that that fuzzy cloud called "upper level management" will somehow transform into a person I can talk to. My experience is that once you get to the right upper level person, and you state your case sensibly, you get what you want. If anyone on the list knows the people to talk to to get this happen please share. P.S: It is interesting to note how the SPARC port happened despite Sun never releasing low-level stuff (as if they had anything to lose by that) and David's reverse engineering all their stuff. SGI has nothing to lose and everything to gain from cooperation with the hacker's community. Linux is running on Alpha and SPARC by now. We don't want to see Linux running on HP and IBM before it does on our iron, do we ? -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 20:04:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA22136; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:04:41 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA25895 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:04:22 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA25815 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:04:00 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA16268 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:01:28 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA25552; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:01:26 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA29530; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:01:22 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA21277; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:47:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:47:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199706180247.VAA21277@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com CC: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> (jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW X-Windows: Japan's secret weapon. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2134 Lines: 55 > While this appears to be an ideal solution on the surface, it has some obvious > and immediate problems as well. Namely, the complete lack of the driver > infrastructure to support the device-dependant layer of the Xsgi server. I personally would like to provide the same interface to the userland independently of what X server we end up using (the IRIX X server or the ported X11R6 server). And from the rest of your mail, it seems like the easier approach will be to run the stock IRIX Xsgi server on Linux. I have been doing my homework, and have a list of device drivers that are used by the X server. Most of the devices are trivial to code (keyboard, mouse, input, semaphore drver), some are more interesting (the shmiq will be an interesting driver, since it seems the only user of this driver is the X server, and it is nowhere documented in the man pages) and finally the hard device driver to write is the /dev/opengl driver. Some of the ioctls that are performed on the opengl should be trivial to implemnt. There is particularly one interesting ioctl: the GFX_ATTACH_BOARD which appears to take a (struct gfx_attach_board_args *). This structure is: struct gfx_attach_board_args { unsigned int board; void *vaddr; /* this is a user space address */ }; On my machine, the ioctl on /dev/opengl is being called with vaddr set to 0x02000000. I wonder what exactly is being done at this address space? I know it does not do any mmap on this address (my test program showed me this). Probably I need to have allocated this memory before hand? Anyways, just after the X server calls this ioctl, it start calling a bunch of ioctl, for which I could not figure out much: 0x530c, 0x520f, 0x520e, 0x5401, 0x5302, 0x5303, 0x5208, 0x5308, 0x5208, 0x5203, 0x5401, 0x5203 There are no ioctls in /usr/include that would make any sense for these. No IO*_ 'S' nor 'T' are documented there. Put personally, I do not believe codign the /dev/opengl device will be very hard either. Now, back to disassembling /unix opengl_ioctl and try to figure out those ioctls :-) Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 17 23:38:15 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA09034; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:38:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA16244 for linux-list; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:37:58 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA16240 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:37:56 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA16386 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:37:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA09017; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:37:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199706180637.XAA09017@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:37:15 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 386 Lines: 10 : There are some very serious issues which come up even getting Xfree to a : moderate level of acceleration. How about to a simple level of working? Without any acceleration? For most people, just having xterms and netscape working is enough. I'm not a graphics or X person. Could someone who knows SGI's gfx devices tell us how hard it would be to make the basics work? Thanks. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 00:33:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA11808; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:33:48 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA22595 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:33:34 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA22584 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:33:29 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id JAA18543; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:05 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id JAA10165; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:03 +0200 Message-ID: <33A78F2E.794B@munich.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:02 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Christopher W. Carlson" CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: SGI machine References: <9706171302.ZM27101@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1891 Lines: 46 Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > > Just thought I'd pass on the response that I received from > Richard Stallman. > > --- Forwarded mail from Richard Stallman > > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:17:06 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > To: carlson > Subject: Re: SGI machine > > We now have free systems running on all our machines, so we > could not accept a machine that runs a non-free system like IRIX. > So, does this mean they are no longer interested in supporting GNU stuff on non-free systems? > Once you have a GNU/Linux system running, that problem would be > solved. But usable machines have become pretty cheap--we could buy a > 686 for the cost of paying a programmer for 2 weeks--and we have more > than enough machines now for the people we have. What we mainly need > nowadays is money to pay programmers. > > Is there any chance you could convince some part of SGI to make a > donation? Or at least buy a Deluxe Distribution? > > We can hire a programmer for a year for just $35000 or so. > Besides our GNU effort, any chance that we can get someone to donate a considerable amount of money to the FSF? Just to make a point that we are not against free software. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 01:22:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA12236; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:22:51 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA28351 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:22:29 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA28341 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:22:27 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA16059 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:21:33 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id KAA20664; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:21:31 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id KAA12442; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:21:29 +0200 Message-ID: <33A79A89.1CFB@munich.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:21:29 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry McVoy CC: John Wiederhirn , linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Getting X on Linux/SGI (2) References: <199706180637.XAA09017@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2259 Lines: 55 [also changeing the subject] Larry McVoy wrote: > > : There are some very serious issues which come up even getting > : Xfree to a moderate level of acceleration. > > How about to a simple level of working? Without any acceleration? > For most people, just having xterms and netscape working is enough. > > I'm not a graphics or X person. Could someone who knows SGI's gfx > devices tell us how hard it would be to make the basics work? > Probably not that hard if we gave away the documentation (do we have *documentation*) on the GFX cards low level interfaces. The major problem to me seems that each different architecture (XL, XZ/Elan/Extreme, IMPACT, CRM) has different interfaces. I am not sure that you can find a minimal subset of calls to make a very simple Xserver work (is Peter Daifuku on this list ? Mark Kilgard?). Personally I think that we don't loose anything if we give away the stuff for the older boards (Newport, Express). I am not sure, what we loose if we do the same for IMPACT/IR (OK, IR is probably not such a big deal :-) Questions: - How much HW dependent stuff is in Xsgi itself? - Which of the DSOs in /usr/lib/X11/dyDDX are minimally needed to bring up an non-GLX Xserver? - How much efforts would it cost to compile the dyDDX stuff for Linux and distribute the binaries only (assuming that there is not to much HW stuff in Xsgi itself)? And of course, we probably have to provide the microcode and loader for the different GFX cards. I definitely agree with Ariel, that this is the most important topic once we have Linux running stable. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 05:39:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA12188; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:39:46 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id FAA16225 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:39:25 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA16220 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:39:23 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA16680 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:38:42 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id FAA27279; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:38:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:38:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199706181238.FAA27279@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) Cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW In-Reply-To: <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> References: <199706171710.MAA15321@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> <9706171053.ZM9344@sgi.com> <9706171700.ZM11546@blammo.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1050 Lines: 18 John Wiederhirn writes: > On Jun 17, 10:53am, richard offer wrote: > > * $ from miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx at "17-Jun:12:10pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" > > * > > * 4. Would it be possible for a free software company to redistribute > > * the SGI's X server? In that case, we could concentrate on getting > > * the IRIX emulation as good as possible and just use the SGI X > > * server and let Red Hat/Debian/GNU ship the cd with that binary. > > > > This would be my preferred solution, but I've had many an argument on this > > subject that I felt very dubious about bringing it up again. ... I talked with David Miller about this area last year. I suspect that one can run any of the cards with the firmware loaded by the PROM, in "dumb" mode. One would basically render by hand, or with very limited acceleration and just DMA the data into the frame buffer (since the frame buffer is generally not memory-mapped). The result would not be really fast, but it would be functional. I am travelling today, but I will check tomorrow. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 09:24:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA13770; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:24:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA19944 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:24:37 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA19932 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:24:35 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA16676; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:23:50 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706180923.ZM16569@sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:23:49 -0700 In-Reply-To: Martin Knoblauch "Getting X on Linux/SGI (2)" (Jun 18, 10:21am) References: <199706180637.XAA09017@neteng.engr.sgi.com> <33A79A89.1CFB@munich.sgi.com> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Martin Knoblauch Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI (2) Cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3389 Lines: 95 * $ from knobi@munich.sgi.com at "18-Jun:10:21am" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * [also changeing the subject] * * Larry McVoy wrote: * > * > : There are some very serious issues which come up even getting * > : Xfree to a moderate level of acceleration. * > * > How about to a simple level of working? Without any acceleration? * > For most people, just having xterms and netscape working is enough. * > * > I'm not a graphics or X person. Could someone who knows SGI's gfx * > devices tell us how hard it would be to make the basics work? * > * * Probably not that hard if we gave away the documentation * (do we have *documentation*) on the GFX cards low level interfaces. * The major problem to me seems that each different architecture * (XL, XZ/Elan/Extreme, IMPACT, CRM) has different interfaces. * I am not sure that you can find a minimal subset of calls * to make a very simple Xserver work (is Peter Daifuku on this * list ? Mark Kilgard?). I'm fairly sure Peter isn't, and I haven't heard anything from Mark, so one would guess not :-) * * Personally I think that we don't loose anything if we give away * the stuff for the older boards (Newport, Express). Unfortunetly we don't get to make these sorts of decisions :-( * I am not * sure, what we loose if we do the same for IMPACT/IR (OK, IR * is probably not such a big deal :-) * * * Questions: * * - How much HW dependent stuff is in Xsgi itself? * - Which of the DSOs in /usr/lib/X11/dyDDX are minimally * needed to bring up an non-GLX Xserver? My guess would be none of them, on my system all I have is glx, speedo, type1 and xdps, all features of which I could live without---whether the server will work without them is another thing. Although I hope it would, as there is no way we can have xdps. * - How much efforts would it cost to compile the dyDDX * stuff for Linux and distribute the binaries only * (assuming that there is not to much HW stuff in Xsgi itself)? I can't answer any of these, this requires someone else from Peter's group (jessb and corriero are the low-level hardware type people). I doubt if they have much interest/bandwidth. * * * And of course, we probably have to provide the microcode and * loader for the different GFX cards. * * I definitely agree with Ariel, that this is the most important * topic once we have Linux running stable. Good, so we are all agreed then. * * Martin * -- * +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ * |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | * |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | * |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| * |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | * |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | * +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ * |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | * +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ * richard. _____________________________________________________________________ The difference between 'wants' and 'needs' can clearly be expressed as follows:- You want the moon on a stick. You need a damn good kicking. Nhi Vanye:after "Fist of Fun" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 09:28:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA13740; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:28:55 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA20904 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:28:46 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA20880 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:28:43 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id JAA28912; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:28:42 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706180928.ZM28910@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:28:41 -0700 In-Reply-To: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) "Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 17, 5:34pm) References: <199706180034.RAA24770@yon.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1467 Lines: 36 On Jun 17, 5:34pm, Ariel Faigon wrote: > > P.S: > It is interesting to note how the SPARC port happened despite Sun > never releasing low-level stuff (as if they had anything to lose > by that) and David's reverse engineering all their stuff. SGI > has nothing to lose and everything to gain from cooperation with > the hacker's community. Linux is running on Alpha and SPARC > by now. We don't want to see Linux running on HP and IBM > before it does on our iron, do we ? > > -- > Peace, Ariel >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon I agree. I'm not sure, but how much are we really giving away if we provide some of our software to the linux community? Imagine the proliferation of OpenGL software that would be generated and the number of computers we would sell if Joe Shmoe could buy an O2 with Linux and OpenGL support? SGI is a hardware company! It surprises me that much of our company has forgotten that. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 09:34:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA13762; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:34:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA22061 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:48 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA22046 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:46 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id JAA28933; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:44 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706180933.ZM28931@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:33:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: SGI machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1365 Lines: 40 Another note from Richard Stallman in response to a comment I made about how we are talking about getting SGI to provide *some* of our accelleration source. --- Forwarded mail from Richard Stallman Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:58:42 -0400 From: Richard Stallman To: carlson Subject: Re: SGI machine SGI releasing some free software would set a good example. We might want to write about it in the GNU's Bulletin or otherwise publicize it. If there is anything I can do to encourage matters, or solve any problems, or clear up any possible misunderstandings, please let me know. Meanwhile, I hope you'll encourage various people there to take a look at http://www.gnu.ai.mit.edu/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html. ---End of forwarded mail from Richard Stallman -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 09:41:44 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA13814; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:44 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA23591 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:18 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA23579 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:12 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id JAA28977; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:11 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706180941.ZM28975@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:41:11 -0700 In-Reply-To: Martin Knoblauch "Re: (Fwd) Re: SGI machine" (Jun 18, 9:33am) References: <9706171302.ZM27101@heaven.newport.sgi.com> <33A78F2E.794B@munich.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: SGI machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1440 Lines: 39 On Jun 18, 9:33am, Martin Knoblauch wrote: > > --- Forwarded mail from Richard Stallman > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:17:06 -0400 > > From: Richard Stallman > > To: carlson > > Subject: Re: SGI machine > > > > We now have free systems running on all our machines, so we > > could not accept a machine that runs a non-free system like IRIX. > > > > So, does this mean they are no longer interested in supporting > GNU stuff on non-free systems? > >-- End of excerpt from Martin Knoblauch Yes, that's what I think it means. Bottom line is that it is up to us (SGI) to provide the support for IRIX. There are various people throughout SGI who do testing and debugging on our systems and feed them back to FSF. For example, I'm on the Emacs pretest list. I usually get early releases of Emacs and test it on various boxes before it is released. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 10:49:47 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA15085; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:49:47 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA14336 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:49:30 -0700 Received: from yon.engr.sgi.com (yon.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.32]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA14331 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:49:28 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by yon.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA26985; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:48:57 -0700 From: ariel@yon.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706181748.KAA26985@yon.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: SGI machine To: knobi@munich.sgi.com (Martin Knoblauch) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <33A78F2E.794B@munich.sgi.com> from "Martin Knoblauch" at Jun 18, 97 09:33:02 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 955 Lines: 32 : :Christopher W. Carlson wrote: :> :> Just thought I'd pass on the response that I received from :> Richard Stallman. :> :> --- Forwarded mail from Richard Stallman :> :> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:17:06 -0400 :> From: Richard Stallman :> To: carlson :> Subject: Re: SGI machine :> :> We now have free systems running on all our machines, so we :> could not accept a machine that runs a non-free system like IRIX. :> : : So, does this mean they are no longer interested in supporting :GNU stuff on non-free systems? : Hi Linuxies, As much as I admire rms, his amazing life achievements, and the free software movement he created, let's not accept it "as is" when he talks in his strong opinionated style in the name of others. I happen to know two major FSF contributors that would love to get SGI hardware and make GNU stuff work on IRIX _or_ Linux. Please keep emailing me leads :-) -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 12:31:19 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA22981; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:31:18 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA16327 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:30:38 -0700 Received: from aa5b.engr.sgi.com (aa5b.engr.sgi.com [150.166.36.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16317; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:30:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (nigel@localhost) by aa5b.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA19996; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:30:34 GMT Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:30:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Nigel Gamble To: "Christopher W. Carlson" cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <9706180928.ZM28910@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 565 Lines: 15 On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > SGI is a hardware company! It surprises me > that much of our company has forgotten that. If it was ever true, it's certainly not true any longer. SGI is a systems company. By which I mean that our "edge" over the competition comes from a combination of hardware and software working very closely together. Nigel Gamble "Are we going to push the edge of the envelope, Brain?" Silicon Graphics "No, Pinky, but we may get to the sticky part." nigel@sgi.com (415) 933-3109 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 12:43:15 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA01397; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:43:14 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA19107 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:42:32 -0700 Received: from betty.esd.sgi.com (betty.esd.sgi.com [192.111.24.44]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA19093 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:42:30 -0700 Received: by betty.esd.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id MAA05756; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:41:23 -0700 From: "John Chen" Message-Id: <9706181241.ZM5754@betty.esd.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:41:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: kck@darwin (Ken Klingman) "Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 18, 9:41am) References: <199706181641.JAA05598@darwin.esd.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 6apr95 MediaMail) To: chen@darwin.esd.sgi.com (John Chen), jc@darwin.esd.sgi.com (Joe Chien), kck@darwin.esd.sgi.com (Ken Klingman) Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3259 Lines: 91 On Jun 18, 9:41am, Ken Klingman wrote: > Subject: Getting X on Linux/SGI > John, > > There's an effort going to port Linux to SGI systems. They've > got the basic kernel up on an Indy, but are now trying to figure > out what to do with X. Could you reply to the mail alias (linux@engr) > with a few words on the effort involved and what kind of specs they > need? I know that our X server architecture is complicated by the > support of OpenGL, but wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just do X > without any OpenGL support? > > ... > > Ken > > ... > > Forwarded message: > > Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > > : There are some very serious issues which come up even getting > > > : Xfree to a moderate level of acceleration. > > > > > > How about to a simple level of working? Without any acceleration? > > > For most people, just having xterms and netscape working is enough. > > > > > > I'm not a graphics or X person. Could someone who knows SGI's gfx > > > devices tell us how hard it would be to make the basics work? The fastest path to make basic X works is probably by implementing a device dependent layer (DDX) that controls all pixels going in/out framebuffer, opens and closes devices like keyboard and mouse, interpret input events and control graphic display backend. Since frame buffer on Indy system is not directly accessible. all pixels in/out frame buffer has to be via this DDX layer. A lot of sample code under cfb directory should be reuseable with minor changes. To begin with non-accelerated rendering, only setpixel and getpixel are required. A generic DDX layer which described in "The X Window System Server" book (authors: Elias Israel and Erik Fortune) can be FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu I think you also need following stuff for Indy system with Newport graphic: 1) Newport graphics spec. 2) A basic graphic driver that map RE chip to Xsgi's address space, so X can program RE registers 3) This graphic driver also needs to set up graphic backend display id table and display mode registers (if X support only one visual, this step is simple), to program Cmap for cursor color and to program cursor registers for glyph and location. All of these work can also be done in X if driver map backend to X. > > > > > > > ... > > > > Questions: > > > > - How much HW dependent stuff is in Xsgi itself? Xsgi contains something specific to IRIX, e.g. share memory input queue stuff which may not be wanted by Linux. > > - Which of the DSOs in /usr/lib/X11/dyDDX are minimally > > needed to bring up an non-GLX Xserver? All DSOs in dyDDX support GLX. If the system is Indy, rex3.so is used for Newport graphic and exp.so is used for EXPRESS graphic. By trimming down Xsgi and DSO's, you should be able to run Xsgi on Linux without GLX. -John > > - How much efforts would it cost to compile the dyDDX > > stuff for Linux and distribute the binaries only > > (assuming that there is not to much HW stuff in Xsgi itself)? > > > > > > And of course, we probably have to provide the microcode and > > loader for the different GFX cards. > > > > I definitely agree with Ariel, that this is the most important > > topic once we have Linux running stable. > > > > Martin > > >-- End of excerpt from Ken Klingman From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 13:03:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA04815; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:03:42 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA25014 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:56 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA24853 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:10 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA03330 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:08 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10206; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA06751; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:56:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:56:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199706181956.PAA06751@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: chen@betty.esd.sgi.com CC: chen@darwin.esd.sgi.com, jc@darwin.esd.sgi.com, kck@darwin.esd.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <9706181241.ZM5754@betty.esd.sgi.com> (chen@betty.esd.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1498 Lines: 34 From: "John Chen" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:41:23 -0700 I think you also need following stuff for Indy system with Newport graphic: 1) Newport graphics spec. I have this. 2) A basic graphic driver that map RE chip to Xsgi's address space, so X can program RE registers 15 minutes of coding... 3) This graphic driver also needs to set up graphic backend display id table and display mode registers (if X support only one visual, this step is simple), to program Cmap for cursor color and to program cursor registers for glyph and location. All of these work can also be done in X if driver map backend to X. I can do this since I have #1, in fact I might be setting up the backend display for one visual already in the text console driver I wrote. The way to manipulate the cursor and cmap is pretty much documented in my text console driver as well, but I think some of the actual cursor code is just pound define'd out but it is/was there. (worse case you have to sift through the CVS history for the driver and check out a version right before I snipped the code out if I in fact did remove it at some point) As for the input queue stuff, this has already been implemented on the Sparc port because we were using SunOS Xsun binaries long ago, the stock X11R6 sources use this mechanism anyways in the Sun frame buffer support code, and their interface is very similar to IRIX's I think (they call it VUID events). From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 13:21:31 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA12427; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:21:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA29534 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:20:58 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA29514 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:20:52 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA07660 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:20:49 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA05228; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:15:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:15:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: "David S. Miller" cc: chen@darwin.esd.sgi.com, jc@darwin.esd.sgi.com, kck@darwin.esd.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706181956.PAA06751@jenolan.caipgeneral> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 434 Lines: 15 On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, David S. Miller wrote: > From: "John Chen" > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:41:23 -0700 > I think you also need following stuff for Indy system with Newport graphic: > 1) Newport graphics spec. > I have this. Q: is the newport graphics spec available outside of SGI? If so, is there any way for me to get my hands on a copy of it, either electronically or physically? - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 14:00:18 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA13717; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:00:18 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA07991 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:59:38 -0700 Received: from dist.engr.sgi.com (dist.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.118]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA07972 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:59:36 -0700 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com by dist.engr.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id NAA27056; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:59:31 -0700 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id QAA08563; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:59:21 -0400 Received: from cygnus (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA06344; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:59:00 -0400 Message-ID: <33A84C14.DAD8AA3E@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:59:00 -0400 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5C (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@dist.engr.sgi.com, linux-progress@dist.engr.sgi.com, landman@detroit.sgi.com, stevenp@dearborn.sgi.com CC: miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx, ralf@Julia.DE Subject: Linux on R4k or R5k Indy X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1634 Lines: 39 Howdy! Ive seen http://info.engr.sgi.com/linux/status.html and http://bogomips.ingenia.com/ . We are hosting a Linux user's group in our facility next week and I would love to have an Indy up and running with it if at all possible. Could someone point me towards an installation site where I could mirror stuff locally for the installation? If it will run on an R3k or R4k Indigo (the only machine I really have as a 100% spare) Ill keep it up to date and running on the internal net all the time. I have 15-20 Indy's coming in on trade in about a month (R4400) which I hope to be able to grab one of as well. Ive looked on ftp://vger.rutgers.edu/pub/linux/MIPS (which was empty), ftp.fnet.fr (which appeared to be down) and on ftp://kernel.panic.julia.de/pub/linux/mips/(which appears to have everything). Before I go and try to mirror this site across our T-1 and through the SGI firewall, Id really prefer finding somewhere within SGI that may have this already. Can anyone point me in the right direction and to a MIPS installation HOWTO? Thanks in Advance! Eric. -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 14:56:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA15105; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:56:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA24647 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:55:48 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA24624 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:55:46 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA01686 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:55:42 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA09285 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:34:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries Reply-To: Alex deVries To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: http://www.linux.sgi.com? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1041 Lines: 25 I've had a few bits of email from people asking me about SGI-Linux. I'm thinking as we start to get things off the ground that it would be a good idea to publish something at www.linux.sgi.com. As this will reflect on SGI, does anyone want to write anything there? Also, have the folks at SGI considered a press release announcing that SGI-Linux is being officially sponsored by SGI? This would be _very_ impressive news to the Linux community, I think. Certainly mklinux gave me a much better view of Apple. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to start writing some documentation on where we're at, how to get started, what equipment it runs on, etc. I'd be happy to start writing an SGI-Linux FAQ and/or HOWTO, if there are no objections. I'm well aware that I don't speak on behalf of SGI, so if there's someone over there who'd prefer to write it, I understand. - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 16:17:02 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA22969; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:17:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA16040 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:16:37 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA16019; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:16:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA00661; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:16:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199706182316.QAA00661@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Nigel Gamble From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:16:34 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1111 Lines: 25 : On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Christopher W. Carlson wrote: : > SGI is a hardware company! It surprises me : > that much of our company has forgotten that. : : If it was ever true, it's certainly not true any longer. SGI is : a systems company. By which I mean that our "edge" over the : competition comes from a combination of hardware and software : working very closely together. We can argue this all day. It's pointless. Something that is not pointless, something that the nay-sayers should take to heart, is that more than 10% of Alpha sales last year were Linux. I confirmed this with Digital this morning - the number is somewhere between 25 and 30 thousand Alphas running Linux. Add to that the 4-6 million PCs running Linux and you start to have a story. Add to that the 19 million embedded MIPS chips and you start to ask yourself why we aren't more serious about this market. So, while we could sit around and argue with those who disagree, I say that there is more than enough evidence that there is a market there. If there's a market, we do it. That's the SGI way. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 16:42:58 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA03456; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:42:58 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA23903 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:42:41 -0700 Received: from aa5b.engr.sgi.com (aa5b.engr.sgi.com [150.166.36.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA23898; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:42:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (nigel@localhost) by aa5b.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA01575; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:42:38 GMT Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Nigel Gamble To: Larry McVoy cc: "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706182316.QAA00661@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1029 Lines: 25 On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Larry McVoy wrote: > : On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > : > SGI is a hardware company! It surprises me > : > that much of our company has forgotten that. > : > : If it was ever true, it's certainly not true any longer. SGI is > : a systems company. By which I mean that our "edge" over the > : competition comes from a combination of hardware and software > : working very closely together. > > We can argue this all day. It's pointless. Who is arguing? I'm just trying to point out that belittling the efforts of all the software engineers at SGI is hardly likely to endear your cause to them. There are those of us who think there is a place for both Linux and IRIX (although I know that you, Larry, are not one of them); so please try to understand where we are coming from. Nigel Gamble "Are we going to push the edge of the envelope, Brain?" Silicon Graphics "No, Pinky, but we may get to the sticky part." nigel@sgi.com (415) 933-3109 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 19:08:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA04662; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:08:38 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA23988 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:07:54 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA23976 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:07:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA04619; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199706190207.TAA04619@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: linux@neteng.engr.sgi.com, os@neteng.engr.sgi.com Subject: FYI - free Windows API Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:07:51 -0700 From: Larry McVoy Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 7897 Lines: 168 ------- Forwarded Message Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:59:17 -0700 From: gordoni@base.com (Gordon Irlam) To: achut@eng.sun.com, bruce_horton@hotmail.com, hsu@freebsd.org, corbin@eng.sun.com, gnu@toad.com, lm@sgi.com, willey@purdue.edu, kr@base.com, lpd@aladdin.com, rlm@transmeta.com, deraadt@theos.com, tclayton@eng.sun.com cc: FoRK@pest.w3.org Subject: Willows places Windows API under GNU (Library) GPL Below is my boring corporatized summary of this. My uncorporatized analysis is simpler, and reads: Fuckin cool! - http://www.willows.com/ gordon -------------------------------------------------------------------- Willows Software has decided to make the sources to their Windows API technology freely available under the GNU Library GPL. This is very significant. Willows technology sounds has a long way to go before it catches up to Microsoft, but much like the capacity of Linux to overtake the existing Unix vendors, this possibility shouldn't be ruled out. A Linux magnitude net effort to create a free replacement to Windows could certainly put a bound on Microsoft's ability to increase the price it starts charging for it's operating systems now that it thinks it has secured a monopoly. While this technology is not perfect, it is probably the best non-Microsoft licensed Windows API technology that presently exists (alternatives being Wabi from Sun, and Wine written by Bob Amstead and friends, freely available on the net). Other technologies, such as from Bristol, use code licensed by Microsoft. Willows Software comprises both a set of Windows API compatible libraries that presently run on top of Unix and Mac, and also an x86 machine code simulator for running existing x86 binaries. The option to simply compile to native code on the appropriate processor also exists. Only the Win16 API presently appears mature, and a lot of work is still required to complete the Win32 APIs. According to an earlier press release, a lot of work will also be required to implement OLE. Willows Software is a part of the Canopy Group which is a group of companies owned by NFT Ventures. NFT Ventures is run by Ray Norda. I believe NFT stands for Norda Family Trust. Another member of the Canopy Group is Caldera, one of the leading Linux companies. According to the Canopy Group's own web site the mission of the Canopy Group is: "to enhance and support Novell's products with aggressive strategies and technologies" This suprizes me given that Ray Norda is no longer involved with Novell (I even checked recent SEC filings by Novell to confirm this). I don't really understand the relationship between Novell and Willow, nor whether Eric Schmidt's presence at Novell might also have played a part in the decision to free the Willows Windows API (Schmidt is one of the few senior people in the industry that appears to understand the economic forces associated with free software). See http://www.willows.com/ for further details, or to download the complete sources. A previous article on Willows follows. gordon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- January 1996 article reporting plans by Willows to make the sources to their software freely available on the net, but to continue to charge money for it's commercial use. (The new license that was just announced is royalty free)... Subject: A not-quite-free Windows clone... Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:25:15 -0800 (PST) >From Unigram... NOORDA's WILLOWS TO PUT ITS WINDOWS-ON-UNIX SOURCE ON TO NET Fresh from its victory over Microsoft Corp last month at ECMA, the European Computer Manufacturers Association (UX No 569), the tiny Ray Noorda-financed start-up Willows Software has changed gears, plowing ahead with a move that is bound to irk the mighty Redmond empire. This week it'll detail a plan to distribute the source code to its ersatz Win32s operating environment, described as a subset of Windows 95, free on the Internet. It will also make its anticipated software development kit, the Twin Cross Platform Developers Kit (XPDK), similarly available for personal use. Noorda himself will brief the press. The source code will allow users of any flavour of Unix - followed in turn by Apple Macintosh, Novell NetWare and ultimately IBM OS/2 users - to run Windows binaries, particularly Microsoft's own highly popular Word, Excel and PowerPoint programs, on their systems. They will not have to pay any operating systems "taxes" to Microsoft. Saratoga, California-based Willows claims the move will create something of a paradigm shift - at least within the narrow confines of Unix - and spell the end of Sun Microsystems Inc's like-minded but limited product, Wabi, as well as Motif. Officially, Wabi only runs two dozen of the thousands of Windows programs available and to run some of them, like PowerPoint, requires the real Windows underneath, defeating one of Sun's purposes - to wit, depriving Microsoft of its revenue stream. Willows chief Rob Farnum says he will spend the next few weeks lobbying Wabi's greatest adherents, Sun and IBM, to abandon Wabi and license the Willows solution on favourable terms. He has utter confidence such an appeal will succeed and make Willows money. (Sun and IBM Corp did after all sit on the ECMA technical committee TC37 with Willows pushing the technology as a standard.) Farnum never wanted to distribute the source code, he says, because Willows doesn't have the financial wherewithal to support it. The decision to do it anyway was made over the holidays by Microsoft's old nemesis Ray Noorda and his henchmen. Farnum now believes that despite the fact the source code won't be supported it will attract tens of thousands of users. Outside interest in Willows technology, he said, has always focused almost exclusively on its ability to run binaries. It is unclear whether Noorda will also try to tie it in somehow with the Linux freeware-based Corsair Internet desktop his Caldera operation is pushing. Willows is also now willing to forego carving out what it estimates would be a modest little $10m business selling its XPDK toolkit to a couple of thousand Unix developers a year. Any real money to be made, it figures, lies in what it calls "professional services," porting applications for people with its technology or helping them port them. It intends to announce such a program this week. It also intends to announce licensing schemes whereby pieces of its technology can be bundled with third-party programs. Willows will support its technology when applied to commercial purposes and apparently charge modest licensing fees of $250 a platform despite the number of developers using it or run-times created. Farnum claims that when Willows this week announces the imminent arrival of its XPDK for the Mac - which like its NetWare kit is at the alpha stage - it will bring pressure to bear on Microsoft's new $1,600 Visual C++ tool for the platform. Still he remains diffident, or perhaps cautious, about Willows impact on Microsoft - at one point calling it "mouse nuts" - and Microsoft's reaction to Willows' moves. He apparently expects Microsoft to denigrate Willows technology out of a perceived loss of control, loss of revenue and threat to Win95. At the same time, he admits it would take Willows 50 man-years just to catch up with Microsoft's OLE work which he knows he must emulate. Farnum leaves unarticulated or unadmitted - despite direct questions - Willows long-term purposes respecting Microsoft though perhaps he and Noorda now feel they will make more daunting foes by using the Internet to evolve their schemes. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 19:30:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA05335; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:30:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA27940 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:30:09 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA27924 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:30:07 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA13894 for linux; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:29:36 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706181929.ZM12845@sgi.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:29:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: Larry McVoy "FYI - free Windows API" (Jun 18, 7:07pm) References: <199706190207.TAA04619@neteng.engr.sgi.com> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: FYI - free Windows API Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1231 Lines: 43 * $ from lm@neteng at "18-Jun: 7:07pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * [sniping] * >From Unigram... * * NOORDA's WILLOWS TO PUT ITS WINDOWS-ON-UNIX SOURCE ON TO NET * [sniping again] * Saratoga, California-based Willows claims the move will * create something of a paradigm shift - at least within the * narrow confines of Unix - and spell the end of Sun * Microsystems Inc's like-minded but limited product, Wabi, as * well as Motif. Oh great, well thats me out of a job then :-( Even a company the size of DEC couldn't persuade more than a handful of companies to port their code to Alpha/NT, and this one-man-and-his-band will succeed ? [one last snip] * * ------- End of Forwarded Message * richard. _____________________________________________________________________ A guest signature from Jeff Drummond (jjd at cray.com) My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. My name is Frankenstein. I have no father. Prepare to die. My name is Darth Vader. I AM your father. Prepare to die. My name is Freddie Kruger. Your father killed me. Prepare to die. My name is the Terminator. Your yet-to-be-born son will kill me. Prepare to die. Yo, I'm Rambo. Somebody got killed. Die. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 19:43:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA05741; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:43:27 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA29502 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:43:02 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA29490 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:43:00 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA12766 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:42:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA05701; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:42:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199706190242.TAA05701@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: FYI - free Windows API Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:42:18 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 914 Lines: 20 : Even a company the size of DEC couldn't persuade more than a handful of : companies to port their code to Alpha/NT, and this one-man-and-his-band will : succeed ? A couple of counters to that: a) he's giving it away under the GPL. Linux used that approach and has at least 3 million, some say 6 million, seats. Linus didn't get all those seats - he was helped. This guy is asking for help. Maybe we, SGI, and the other Unix vendors should contribute a few percent of our engineering staff to all working on this to catch up with u$oft. Together we stand, divided we fall - cliche but uite apropos at the moment. b) did you miss the part about the 8086 interpreter so that you can just run binaries unmodified? I haven't tried it but I imagine it works. As a friend at DEC said - "we need to grow the pie, not shrink it. Linux grows it. We all benefit". I agree. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 20:18:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA06866; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:18:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA04741 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:17:19 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04669 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:16:57 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (gate3-relay.engr.sgi.com [130.62.1.234]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA19033 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:14:25 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04424 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:14:24 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA25010 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:14:23 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA18569; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA06966; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:08:30 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:08:30 -0400 Message-Id: <199706190308.XAA06966@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: offer@sgi.com CC: linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <9706181929.ZM12845@sgi.com> (offer@sgi.com) Subject: Re: FYI - free Windows API Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 171 Lines: 7 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:29:36 -0700 and this one-man-and-his-band will let me tell you about this guy name Linus.... ;-) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 18 23:46:43 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA13554; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:46:43 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA22919 for linux-list; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:46:29 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA22914; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:46:27 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id XAA23946; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:45:42 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA20188; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:40:55 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706190640.IAA20188@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id IAA03194; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:40:52 +0200 Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:40:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nigel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706182316.QAA00661@neteng.engr.sgi.com> from "Larry McVoy" at Jun 18, 97 04:16:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1659 Lines: 37 Larry McVoy wrote: > We can argue this all day. It's pointless. > > Something that is not pointless, something that the nay-sayers should > take to heart, is that more than 10% of Alpha sales last year were Linux. > I confirmed this with Digital this morning - the number is somewhere > between 25 and 30 thousand Alphas running Linux. Jon "Maddog" Hall says that the existence of Linux for Alphas helped Digital to sell more Digital UNIX systems than they would have sold without Linux. His explanation is simple. First Linux pulls their customers into the UNIX board. Somewhen the customers have a problem that cannot be solved by Linux but a Digital UNIX system. So it's a logical next step for them to use such a systems. SGI is mostly in the systems bussines and the market of PC class MIPS machines is carefully expressed not doing very well, so this does not 100% apply to their situation. The point is that this not a Linux vs. IRIX situation. > Add to that the 4-6 million PCs running Linux and you start to have > a story. > > Add to that the 19 million embedded MIPS chips and you start to ask > yourself why we aren't more serious about this market. A large fraction of these embedded MIPS chips is able to run Linux from it's hardware specs. And I stopped counting the number of companies that have contaced me about embedded Linux. I admit that my and probably most other people's core interest is in "real computers" ... > So, while we could sit around and argue with those who disagree, I say > that there is more than enough evidence that there is a market there. > If there's a market, we do it. That's the SGI way. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 05:54:44 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA01197; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:54:44 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id FAA21764 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:52:47 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA21758 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:52:44 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id FAA06437 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:52:44 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA18804 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:47:27 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706191247.IAA18804@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: SGI's mirror of kernel.panic To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:47:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 581 Lines: 13 Could whoever is in charge of SGI's internal mirror of kernel.panic get in touch with me? I'd like to get that stuff onto ftp.linux.sgi.com if possible. Mike (crossing the pond, crossing the pond, crossing the...) -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> UNIX medicine man -- dark magick, cheap! #> #> When the going gets tough, the tough give cryptic error messages. #> "We believe in rough consensus and running code." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 07:00:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA02837; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:00:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA27252 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:59:40 -0700 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA27243 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:59:37 -0700 Received: from cygnus by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id JAA20904; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:58:18 -0400 Message-ID: <33A93AFA.9BDF278@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:58:18 -0400 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b6C (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Shaver CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: SGI's mirror of kernel.panic X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706191247.IAA18804@neon.ingenia.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1076 Lines: 31 Mike Shaver wrote: > > Could whoever is in charge of SGI's internal mirror of kernel.panic > get in touch with me? I'd like to get that stuff onto > ftp.linux.sgi.com if possible. > > Mike > (crossing the pond, crossing the pond, crossing the...) Whoever is responsible for the internal mirror of kernel.panic, please tell me the machibe name and directory tree I need to mirror here in Detroit. :) I think someone replied to my request yesterday before I could get added to the linux mailing list. Thanks! Eric. -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 08:44:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA00164; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:44:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA16049 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:44:37 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA16042 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:44:35 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA19839 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:43:49 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id RAA22991; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:43:47 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id RAA23617; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:43:45 +0200 Message-ID: <33A953B1.2847@munich.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:43:45 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry McVoy CC: richard offer , linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: FYI - free Windows API References: <199706190242.TAA05701@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 946 Lines: 22 Larry McVoy wrote: > > > As a friend at DEC said - "we need to grow the pie, not > shrink it. Linux grows it. We all benefit". I agree. Didn't he say - "We need to grow the pie [against NT], not fight over it. Once it is big enough, we can worry about cutting it into pieces."? Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 08:46:47 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA00214; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:46:47 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA16676 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:46:36 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA16663 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:46:34 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id IAA00782; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:46:33 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706190846.ZM780@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:46:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: Nigel Gamble "Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 18, 4:42pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2130 Lines: 49 On Jun 18, 4:42pm, Nigel Gamble wrote: > Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Larry McVoy wrote: > > : On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > > : > SGI is a hardware company! It surprises me > > : > that much of our company has forgotten that. > > : > > : If it was ever true, it's certainly not true any longer. SGI is > > : a systems company. By which I mean that our "edge" over the > > : competition comes from a combination of hardware and software > > : working very closely together. > > > > We can argue this all day. It's pointless. > > Who is arguing? I'm just trying to point out that belittling > the efforts of all the software engineers at SGI is hardly likely > to endear your cause to them. There are those of us who think > there is a place for both Linux and IRIX (although I know that > you, Larry, are not one of them); so please try to understand > where we are coming from. > > >-- End of excerpt from Nigel Gamble Please! Don't think that I am belittling the software engineers! I had no intent on doing that. I *am* one of them. My point was that SGI is into making hardware. That's how it started and that is still its main focus. Yes, it is true that our software is very important because it takes advantage of the proprietary stuff in the hardware, but the main income for SGI is hardware. Note in any press releases and stock holder's documents how much is said about the wonderful software SGI produces (Alias/Wavefront is still a separate entity). You won't find much. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 09:14:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA00526; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:14:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA23911 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:13:42 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA23897 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:13:36 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id JAA00932; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:13:31 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706190913.ZM930@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:13:31 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David Hutton" "Broadway info needed" (Jun 19, 4:42pm) References: <9706191642.ZM9652@lostwithiel.reading.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Broadway info needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1265 Lines: 36 On Jun 19, 4:42pm, David Hutton wrote: > Subject: Broadway info needed > Hi, > > From what I remember the X-Consortium has gone away but there are > plans for X to live on (heaven forbid...) in the form of > 'Broadway'..?? I seem to remember that this is some form of X that > is *suitable* for the web. Ho ho... > > Any information appreciated here. We've had a couple of queries > from customers over the last week or so so need to put them off. > Pointers to web pages, the resident expert on this etc etc > > Cheers > >-- End of excerpt from David Hutton My understanding is that OSF has taken over the X stuff. These are the people that create Motif. They have a web page: http://WWW.osf.org/index.html -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 12:24:47 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16808; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:24:47 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA19257 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:23:53 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA19245 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:23:51 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA11531; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:23:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:23:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199706191923.MAA11531@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Good news: no more begging for HW In-Reply-To: <199706180032.CAA10448@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> References: <9706171715.ZM15632@sgi.com> <199706180032.CAA10448@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1753 Lines: 32 Ralf Baechle writes: > > Probably the first thing to do would be to get the go ahead for a proof of > > concept only (under NDA) probably using an old indy. If this proves impossible > > from either the technical or political pov's then we need to re-think. > > > > I personaly don't think we have much chance unless we go to NDA and even then > > its going to be really hard to get buy-in. > > I guess a workable model for the current technology like O2 etc. would be > that SGI gives documentation out under NDA to the developer(s). After > a certain time (I think about 18 month or two years) after which a product > generation is obsoleted by successors the source and hopefully even the > documentation may be published freely. ... O2 is actually simpler. We would have to document how to set up the display engine (which copies the frame buffer to the screen), but, since O2 is UMA, a purely software X rendering engine will work just fine. I doubt there will be much concern about X, and the software OpenGL reference implementation is widely available. I believe that most internal concerns are about the optimized hardware-dependent GL implementations, where software advances are a competitive issue. (For example, we just released an updated set of GL libraries for O2 which increased performance by 30% on the same hardware.) In that case, since the graphics pipeline is conceptually the same on all our platforms, the optimized algorithms do not become obsolete, just because a particular product is obsolete. I expect that there is room for a reasonable compromise here, without having to get into the complications of NDAs and the like, given that the initial goal, at least, is to get a simple X port done. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 12:43:36 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA18810; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:43:36 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA24459 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:43:15 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA24452 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:43:13 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA20534 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:42:32 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA11573; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:42:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:42:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199706191942.MAA11573@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Martin Knoblauch Cc: Larry McVoy , John Wiederhirn , linux@morgaine.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI (2) In-Reply-To: <33A79A89.1CFB@munich.sgi.com> References: <199706180637.XAA09017@neteng.engr.sgi.com> <33A79A89.1CFB@munich.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1893 Lines: 42 Martin Knoblauch writes: > [also changeing the subject] > > Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > : There are some very serious issues which come up even getting > > : Xfree to a moderate level of acceleration. > > > > How about to a simple level of working? Without any acceleration? > > For most people, just having xterms and netscape working is enough. > > > > I'm not a graphics or X person. Could someone who knows SGI's gfx > > devices tell us how hard it would be to make the basics work? > > > > Probably not that hard if we gave away the documentation > (do we have *documentation*) on the GFX cards low level interfaces. > The major problem to me seems that each different architecture > (XL, XZ/Elan/Extreme, IMPACT, CRM) has different interfaces. > I am not sure that you can find a minimal subset of calls > to make a very simple Xserver work (is Peter Daifuku on this > list ? Mark Kilgard?). The kernel graphics driver is quite complex, although that is in large part due to the support for direct rendering in GL. The hardware, except for Starter, XL, and O2, requires downloaded firmware. Fortunately, basic firmware is downloaded by the PROM, so that it can write on the screen. I believe that an X server can simply do the same operations as the PROM, in regard to manipulating the frame buffer, using the firmware interfaces. I have to investigate this in more detail, however. ... > - How much HW dependent stuff is in Xsgi itself? > - Which of the DSOs in /usr/lib/X11/dyDDX are minimally > needed to bring up an non-GLX Xserver? > - How much efforts would it cost to compile the dyDDX > stuff for Linux and distribute the binaries only > (assuming that there is not to much HW stuff in Xsgi itself)? The interfaces are very different. I tried mixing IRIX X server and XFree86 X server source and did not get very far. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 13:01:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA19764; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:01:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA27927 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:01:28 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA27917 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:01:24 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA11640; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:01:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:01:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199706192001.NAA11640@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: References: <199706181956.PAA06751@jenolan.caipgeneral> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 812 Lines: 19 Alex deVries writes: > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, David S. Miller wrote: > > > From: "John Chen" > > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:41:23 -0700 > > I think you also need following stuff for Indy system with Newport graphic: > > 1) Newport graphics spec. > > I have this. > > Q: is the newport graphics spec available outside of SGI? If so, is there > any way for me to get my hands on a copy of it, either electronically or > physically? With the approval of Tom Furlong (then the SGI VP/GM in charge of Indy), I provided the specification to the Linux-on-SGI project (in the person of David Miller :-) ). It is only available in paper, and David may be the quickest source for it. (I am now in a different division, far from the home of the paper documents.) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 15:32:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA10865; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA10703 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:33 -0700 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA10695 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:31 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA03167; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:30 -0700 From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706192232.PAA03167@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: (fwd) Linux on N64 - can you help To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: allan@oz.engr.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer) Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3088 Lines: 82 Can anyone help this guy? anyone from project reality? Forwarding to Linux and to Kevin (who may know where to get technical docs on this) I'll also suggest to the guy to join our list and listen for a while. ----- Forwarded message from Allan Schaffer ----- >From allan@holodeck.csd.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 15:02:54 1997 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:02:41 -0700 From: allan@holodeck.csd.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer) Message-Id: <9706191502.ZM23638@holodeck.csd.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: ariel@cthulhu Subject: (Fwd) Can your Redirect this? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ariel, I heard you're working on "linux stuff" these days, so thought you might be interested in this. At least, as a kindred spirit... Allan --- Forwarded mail from Todd Shrider Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:07:38 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Shrider To: devprogram@sgi.com cc: sgi-faq@viz.tamu.edu Subject: Can your Redirect this? Hello, If I'm not sending this to the proper channel, could you please help me re-direct it? Thanks! I'm currently a student at Indiana University and a big time Linux enthusiast. I'm involved in a couple of Linux projects that relate directly to SGI. The first is a creation of my own. I am working at taking a Nintendo 64, adapting a mass storage device and a keyboard to it, and porting the Linux Operating System to it. Although the 64 is a game machine, it is a terrific platform, that has many upgrade options such as memory, external devices, connectability (i.e. network/modem), etc. It also has some very powerful graphics capabilities. For these reasons alone I feel it could make an excellent, low cost, "computer" and would be a very competitive platform in the network computer/java station market. Another project which I am just getting involved with is the porting of the Linux OS to platforms such as the Indy and O2. Linux is a wonderful OS and would add a great deal of value to these excellent workstations. In all honesty I figure the more platforms that Linux runs on the more successful it will be, and the more stable it will become (you can never rewrite a piece of code too much. At any point I am looking for some support. As a student (at Indiana University) I really have no budget. There is also alot of technicle questions I have that no one seems to be able to answer. Could you help by either letting me know who I should get in touch with, or by forwarding this message to someone who might be able to help. I greatly appreciate your help. Thank you so much! --- Todd M. Shrider Oops, My brain just hit a bad sector! tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana Universrity, Adaptive Systems Lab http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tshrider ---End of forwarded mail from Todd Shrider -- Allan Schaffer allan@sgi.com Silicon Graphics http://reality.sgi.com/allan ----- End of forwarded message from Allan Schaffer ----- -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 15:41:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA11678; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:41:55 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA13390 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:41:44 -0700 Received: from titian.engr.sgi.com (titian.engr.sgi.com [150.166.240.38]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA13385; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:41:43 -0700 Received: from localhost by titian.engr.sgi.com via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id PAA15535; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:41:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199706192241.PAA15535@titian.engr.sgi.com> To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, allan@oz.engr.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer) Subject: Re: (fwd) Linux on N64 - can you help In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:30 PDT." <199706192232.PAA03167@oz.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:41:42 -0700 From: Mike McDonald Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 618 Lines: 18 >From: ariel@oz (Ariel Faigon) >Subject: (fwd) Linux on N64 - can you help >To: linux@cthulhu >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:32:30 -0700 (PDT) > >Can anyone help this guy? anyone from project reality? >Forwarding to Linux and to Kevin (who may know where to >get technical docs on this) I'll also suggest to the guy >to join our list and listen for a while. I was under the impression that the N64 was Nintendo's proprietary technology, which would require him to get the info from Nintendo. (Good luck on that!) Remember, just because we developed it, doesn't mean we own it. Mike McDonald mikemac@engr.sgi.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 19 21:03:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA15819; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:03:06 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA19422 for linux-list; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:02:34 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA19408 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:02:31 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA27084 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:02:22 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10277; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:49:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:49:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199706200349.WAA10277@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Linux/SGI CVS notification mailing list X-Windows: No hardware is safe. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 333 Lines: 12 Hello, Now cvs commits will be sent to linux-cvs@linus.linux.sgi.com mailing list. If you want to receive the commit messages from cvs, just add your name to linus:/etc/linux-cvs. I just copied Dave's stuff from vger to get this working :-) Currently ralf, mike and I are the only persons on that list. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 00:22:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA18723; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:22:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA09061 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:21:50 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (fddi-refugee.engr.sgi.com [192.26.75.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA09055; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:21:47 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA08929; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706200721.AAA08929@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: "Christopher W. Carlson" Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-reply-to: Message from carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com of 19 Jun 1997 8:46:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:21:36 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 787 Lines: 18 "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: >My point was that SGI is into making hardware. That's how it started >and that is still its main focus. Yes, it is true that our software >is very important because it takes advantage of the proprietary stuff >in the hardware, but the main income for SGI is hardware. How many people buy the hardware and program the bare metal? >Note in any >press releases and stock holder's documents how much is said about the >wonderful software SGI produces (Alias/Wavefront is still a separate >entity). You won't find much. That's a separate issue, which is that very few people here value software. That will probably change with time if the company is going to continue to be successful as the industry shifts. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 00:34:58 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA19023; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:34:58 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA10761 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:34:32 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA10756 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:34:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id AAA18987; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:34:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199706200734.AAA18987@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Steve Alexander From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:34:26 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 697 Lines: 13 : "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: : >My point was that SGI is into making hardware. That's how it started : >and that is still its main focus. Yes, it is true that our software : >is very important because it takes advantage of the proprietary stuff : >in the hardware, but the main income for SGI is hardware. : : How many people buy the hardware and program the bare metal? We own MIPS. MIPS sold or licensed 19.2 million chips last year. About 19 million of those were of the type "program the bare metal". Much of the Linux/MIPS interest is for embedded systems. We should have done this years ago, there is no reason why not to do it other than NIH. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 00:59:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA19832; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:32 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA13421 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:11 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (fddi-refugee.engr.sgi.com [192.26.75.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA13416; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:08 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA02253; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706200759.AAA02253@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Cc: "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-reply-to: Message from lm@neteng of 20 Jun 1997 0:34:26 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:06 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 235 Lines: 7 lm@neteng (Larry McVoy) writes: >We own MIPS. MIPS sold or licensed 19.2 million chips last year. About >19 million of those were of the type "program the bare metal". MIPS Chips != SGI systems. My question still stands. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 01:22:59 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA20738; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:58 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA15270 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:36 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA15264; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:34 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.37.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA28370; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:32 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA05746; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA07911; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:16:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:16:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199706200816.EAA07911@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com CC: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706200759.AAA02253@refugee.engr.sgi.com> (message from Steve Alexander on Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:06 -0700) Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 701 Lines: 16 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:59:06 -0700 From: Steve Alexander lm@neteng (Larry McVoy) writes: >We own MIPS. MIPS sold or licensed 19.2 million chips last year. About >19 million of those were of the type "program the bare metal". MIPS Chips != SGI systems. My question still stands. All your assertion proves is that today IRIX is the "enabling" software technology which puts "SGI systems" out the door. Don't get me wrong, I was constantly reminded what keeps the lights on in bldg. 9 when I was there last summer, but when and if Linux begins to do some (not all) of that "enabling", people might begin to perceive the situation a bit differently. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 01:40:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA21239; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:40:00 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA16613 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:39:41 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (fddi-refugee.engr.sgi.com [192.26.75.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA16606; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:39:39 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA09420; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706200839.BAA09420@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: "David S. Miller" Cc: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-reply-to: Message from davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu of 20 Jun 1997 4:16:39 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:39:35 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 619 Lines: 14 "David S. Miller" writes: >Don't get me wrong, I was constantly reminded what keeps the lights on >in bldg. 9 when I was there last summer, but when and if Linux begins >to do some (not all) of that "enabling", people might begin to >perceive the situation a bit differently. Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to Linux on SGI. In fact, I'm in favor of it, at least on some set of systems. I don't believe that Linux on 64P O2000s makes a lot of sense yet, but I think it would be nice to have Linux running on O200s and Indys. Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 02:24:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA22737; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:24:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA20395 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:23:39 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA20388; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:23:37 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.37.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id CAA04491; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:23:36 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA08805; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA07966; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:17:42 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:17:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199706200917.FAA07966@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: fisher@sgi.com CC: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706200855.BAA14655@hollywood.engr.sgi.com> (fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3896 Lines: 85 From: fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com (William Fisher) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:31 -0800 (PDT) I'm glad someone stepped in this. Nearly all of those systems were nearly bare metal software environments since we had numerous talks with Chet at MIPS about software features that would propell the business. NONE of those customers wanted anything to do with any flavor of Unix, Linux, BSD, System V, etc. In fact Hunter-Ready and the other real-time kernels weren't that popular with the hard core real-time/embedded folks. Hence I would like to here more about larry's definition of "embedded systems" because they sure don't sound like any that our semiconductor partners sell to. Allow me... Let me relay a story a co-Sparc developer of mine told (and showed!) me when I saw him in person in Germany the other week. His name is Eddie C. Dost and he works for a software/hardware house there where they do nothing but embedded work. About two weeks ago he was asked to tackle two projects. One involved an i386SX based board which controlled lighting systems for skyscrapers, the other was a m68k based board which was meant to be deployed by the hundreds to control campus wide key card entry systems for a bunch of corporations and universities in the German speaking countries. He was given QNX to write his drivers and get the box going. Since it is a micro-kernel, you have to perform a task switch to handle even an interrupt, and you have to compile your interrupt handlers with a special compiler and compiler options using QNX compilers just to cope with this bullshit. This was on both systems. Interrupt response was so slow, that even when he coded the drivers in raw optimized assembly he could not keep up and would drop characters easily on his serial ports, the ISDN performance sucked balls as well. So eddie got so frustrated one night that he took both the m68k and Intel ports of Linux, in about an hour added kernel build time configuration options such as "CONFIG_NO_MEMORY_MANAGEMENT", "CONFIG_NO_FANCY_SYSCALLS", "CONFIG_NO_USELESS_FEATURES" and the like to the point where he was able to get a 120k sized Linux kernel with his drivers and the specialized code to run the control systems he needed to deploy, and he got full over the serial line KGDB source level debugging of his kernel as well. The next night he got it completely working and debugged, needless to say this thing didn't have the interrupt performance problems QNX did. The next evening he blew the first revisions of the PROM's the boxes would eventually use in production when these things got sent to the customers. Now here comes the interesting part... He had to then approach his boss, he explained the issues and how he had solved the problem. The boss went "what, use Linux, why the fuck would we even want to do such a thing?" His response was: "Firstly, QNX doesn't even fucking work, at best the product would be delayed if I could get it to work with QNX at all, and thus you might even lose these sales. Secondly, I just saved you a shitload of money and future engineering costs. Not only did I just save you the QNX license on all the hundreds of these fuckers you are going to sell to people (you can sell it at the same prive, the customer won't know the difference), I have a usable mini-Linux kernel that we can use (and thus save the licensing fee's + the engineering all over again) as a base for a lot of our future embedded products." His boss was blown away, the rest is history... So you see, the real issue is that people don't know they want it... Oh btw, Eddie will in fact be working on some MIPS based embedded boards in the near future, and I can tell you he sure as hell isn't gonna be putting QNX or any other "embedded OS" in those things. Later, David "Sparc" Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 01:56:15 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA21828; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:56:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA18012 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:47 -0700 Received: from hollywood.engr.sgi.com (hollywood.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.38]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA18005 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:44 -0700 Received: (from fisher@localhost) by hollywood.engr.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA14655; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:39 -0700 From: fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com (William Fisher) Message-Id: <199706200855.BAA14655@hollywood.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:55:31 -0800 (PDT) Cc: sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com (William Fisher) In-Reply-To: <199706200734.AAA18987@neteng.engr.sgi.com> from "Larry McVoy" at Jun 20, 97 00:34:26 am Reply-To: fisher@sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL3] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2849 Lines: 61 > > : "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: > : >My point was that SGI is into making hardware. That's how it started > : >and that is still its main focus. Yes, it is true that our software > : >is very important because it takes advantage of the proprietary stuff > : >in the hardware, but the main income for SGI is hardware. > : > : How many people buy the hardware and program the bare metal? > > We own MIPS. MIPS sold or licensed 19.2 million chips last year. About > 19 million of those were of the type "program the bare metal". > > Much of the Linux/MIPS interest is for embedded systems. We should have > done this years ago, there is no reason why not to do it other than NIH. > If the demand for Linux on MIPS chips is comming from the "embedded" systems then things sure have changed since the early days of MIPS Computer Systems. The embedded market in 1992-1996 was NOT asking us for Linux, since it was very sensitive to running small real-time kernels. In fact nearly all of the original chips vendors who licensed the chips used the PROM code, remote dbx, compilers, etc. which were sold/licensed to the chip vendors for resell to the embedded customers. If fact the original VP of embedded system marketing at MIPS was Chet Silvestri, now VP of SPARC embedded systems at SUN. Chet was very familar with embedded systems having worked at Intel on numerous automobile systems, real-time process control, etc. Nearly all of those systems were nearly bare metal software environments since we had numerous talks with Chet at MIPS about software features that would propell the business. NONE of those customers wanted anything to do with any flavor of Unix, Linux, BSD, System V, etc. In fact Hunter-Ready and the other real-time kernels weren't that popular with the hard core real-time/embedded folks. Hence I would like to here more about larry's definition of "embedded systems" because they sure don't sound like any that our semiconductor partners sell to. I would like to see Linux on the low end of the SGI workstations for two reasons; One as an existance proof that a lightweigth Unix can be shown to run very fast on our hardware and secondly for sale to either universities or other research labs that want source code and want to hack. I don't think it will sell that many machines but it can't hurt. I personally believe that the popularity of Linux on ALPHA is pushed by the Digital Semiconductor Division and they will do anything to sell chips and Digital systems. I think it is similar behavior that you see in both IBM's Semiconductor Division and at the Motorola's Semiconductor Division with the PowerPC. That being they have no particular religion on any software or OS, anything that moves chips is alright with them. -- Bill From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 03:20:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA22918; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:20:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA24693 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:19:52 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA24687; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:19:49 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA11591; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:19:13 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA14703; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:12:15 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706201012.MAA14703@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id MAA03983; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:12:16 +0200 Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI To: davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu (David S. Miller) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:12:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: fisher@sgi.com, lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706200917.FAA07966@jenolan.caipgeneral> from "David S. Miller" at Jun 20, 97 05:17:42 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1147 Lines: 29 > So you see, the real issue is that people don't know they want it... > > Oh btw, Eddie will in fact be working on some MIPS based embedded > boards in the near future, and I can tell you he sure as hell isn't > gonna be putting QNX or any other "embedded OS" in those things. Three people/companies have already started basing embedded systems based on the MIPS/Linux [1] at times when I personally wouldn't have trusted the entire MIPS port five minutes without peeking at it. Toshiba is currently porting Linux to a new R-family type processor for verification of the processor. Hey, it does run Linux even before there is Silicon at all! Dave is right: > So you see, the real issue is that people don't know they want it... You see, we have not yet really taken off with the MIPS port and we already have some impact on the market. Another interesting embedded project will be done by Alan Cox. He intends to port Linux to the R4650, a CPU without a TLB but just a pair of base/bounds registers. Not an ELKS port but an almost full port of Linux just without certain features like mmap-ing. Ralf [1] Not going to be M/Linux ;-) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 06:40:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA00754; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:40:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA08988 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:38:39 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA08978; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:38:33 -0700 Received: from shire.ontko.com (shire.ontko.com [199.164.165.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA04405; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:38:30 -0700 env-from (todds@ontko.com) Received: from localhost (todds@localhost) by shire.ontko.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA15376; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:42:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Shrider To: William Fisher cc: Larry McVoy , sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706200855.BAA14655@hollywood.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4042 Lines: 81 My take on things: On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, William Fisher wrote: > If the demand for Linux on MIPS chips is comming from the "embedded" > systems then things sure have changed since the early days of > MIPS Computer Systems. The embedded market in 1992-1996 was > NOT asking us for Linux, since it was very sensitive to running > small real-time kernels. In fact nearly all of the original > chips vendors who licensed the chips used the PROM code, remote > dbx, compilers, etc. which were sold/licensed to the chip vendors > for resell to the embedded customers. OK, point taken, but I think that the definition of an embeded system HAS changed draticly from five years ago. Then you were thinking chips in cars, elevators, etc, etc, etc. Probably, at the time, the most kerenl heavy processes were running on chips in smart houses and there weren't a whole hell of a lot of those. Today, at least when I think of embeded systems, I think of small game machines, set-top-boxes, real smart-house systems, etc. Systems that aren't performing one or two tasks, but that are doing multiples of things that can be very different and somewhat unreleated (except maybe in an abstract sense). If you take an "ideal" set-top-box you think of something that can hook up to the network, via cable or phone or whatever, browse the web, ineract with the tv video feeds, receive and send mail (even if only operating as a pop-client), browse news feeds, maybe even run someting like Point-Cast as your "TV Screen Saver". When I think of systems, runnig chips like the 4300i, that can do things like this, I think a pared down Linux is a very justified choice to run them with. I'd rather it than Windows CE! If your still thinking of Linux as a traditional Unix, you may still ask why, but if you think of it a simplistic behind the scenes consumer app, than I think that also resolves alot of problems. > I would like to see Linux on the low end of the SGI workstations > for two reasons; One as an existance proof that a lightweigth > Unix can be shown to run very fast on our hardware and secondly > for sale to either universities or other research labs that want > source code and want to hack. I don't think it will sell that many > machines but it can't hurt. I'd disagree and point you to Digital. At ALE Maddog was talking about a trip through Southern America where half-way digital actually advised him to stop pitching Digital Unix and start talking about Linux. I admit that right away it probably won't be precieved as the OS of choice right away, even Alpha Linux is still not quite the pretty picture the Intel Linux is, but with time it will gain support from the die hard fans (those people who run Linux at home and SGI/IRIX at work). Then the OS get stable and you find a way to run all those wonderful Irix apps on it (see EM86). Then major companies start looking at it, and you get calls (like digital has reported) where people make orders ($$$) and ask you to have Linux over Irix. Look at it this way. Linux has a lot of support in the college community. In five years a majority of these kids will be in industry, do you think there gonna want Irix on there SGIs? > I personally believe that the popularity of Linux on ALPHA is > pushed by the Digital Semiconductor Division and they will do > anything to sell chips and Digital systems. I think it is > similar behavior that you see in both IBM's Semiconductor Division > and at the Motorola's Semiconductor Division with the PowerPC. > That being they have no particular religion on any software or > OS, anything that moves chips is alright with them. I bought a system to runn it on, having never talked to anyone at digital. You gotta love the 500mHz!!! And isn't that the way it should be? If you let the users define what runs on the chips your going to have much happier users. Oh well, just my thoughts... Cheers! --- Todd M. Shrider Oops, My brain just hit a bad sector! todds@ontko.com http://www.ontko.com/~todds From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 07:19:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA02418; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:18:59 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA13015 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:18:32 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA13008 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:18:29 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA10451 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:17:46 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24018; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:07:49 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA28016; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:07:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199706201407.QAA28016@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI To: todds@ontko.com (Todd Shrider) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:07:36 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Todd Shrider" at Jun 20, 97 08:42:47 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 773 Lines: 18 Hi, > that can hook up to the network, via cable or phone or whatever, browse > the web, ineract with the tv video feeds, receive and send mail (even if > only operating as a pop-client), browse news feeds, maybe even run > someting like Point-Cast as your "TV Screen Saver". > > When I think of systems, runnig chips like the 4300i, that can do things > like this, I think a pared down Linux is a very justified choice to run > them with. I'd rather it than Windows CE! If your still thinking of Linux The Algorithmics P4032 which I recently mentioned I'm also running Linux on has a R4300i. The patches are too dirty and still based on 2.1.14, so they're not in the CVS tree ... I'd love to see one of the MIPS based palmtop class machines to run Linux ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 08:23:11 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA04429; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:23:11 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA25253 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:22:47 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA25210 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:22:43 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id RAA17955; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:22:25 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id RAA20084; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:22:20 +0200 Message-ID: <33AAA02C.446B@munich.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:22:20 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Alexander CC: "David S. Miller" , lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI References: <199706200839.BAA09420@refugee.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1133 Lines: 28 Steve Alexander wrote: > > > Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. > I personally would not buy an O2 to run IRIX either. If I buy one, then for running some "cool" apps that let me do my job (better), or have let me have some real fun. The OS finally involved is pretty much irrelevant (OK, this statement is not true for NT, or is it). Which just means that whatever OS gives me more "cool" apps will be more useful for me. OK. Enough marketing speak. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 08:49:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA05544; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:49:23 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA01637 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:47:52 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA01616 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:47:49 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA02133 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:47:48 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA25039 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:24:09 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706201524.LAA25039@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: CONFIG_REMOTE_DEBUG To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 491 Lines: 11 Is this something that's useful enough to warrant me digging up the cabling and software that I'd need to make it work? Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> UNIX medicine man -- dark magick, cheap! #> #> When the going gets tough, the tough give cryptic error messages. #> "We believe in rough consensus and running code." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 09:40:58 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA06783; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:40:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA14359 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:40:32 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA14348; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:40:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA06720; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:40:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199706201640.JAA06720@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Steve Alexander From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: "David S. Miller" , lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:40:27 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 181 Lines: 6 : Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. OK, we won't try and sell you one. What about the people that would buy an O2 to run Linux? You != . From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 09:45:43 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA07092; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:42 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA15700 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:28 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA15667 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA07034; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199706201645.JAA07034@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Steve Alexander From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:22 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 532 Lines: 12 : lm@neteng (Larry McVoy) writes: : >We own MIPS. MIPS sold or licensed 19.2 million chips last year. About : >19 million of those were of the type "program the bare metal". : : MIPS Chips != SGI systems. My question still stands. Have you forgotten Nintendo 64 sales? MIPS Chips == $$$ for SGI. $$$ for SGI is what it is all about, that's what feeds the light bills. If making a bunch of hackers happy turns into $$$ for SGI in the long term, then we do it. At this point, I believe it is obvious that that is the case. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 09:57:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA07518; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA19019 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:16 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18972; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:13 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA19911; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:12 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA25966; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:51:10 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706201651.MAA25966@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706201640.JAA06720@neteng.engr.sgi.com> from Larry McVoy at "Jun 20, 97 09:40:27 am" To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1753 Lines: 41 Thus spake Larry McVoy: > : Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. > > OK, we won't try and sell you one. What about the people that would buy > an O2 to run Linux? > > You != . FWIW, there's a _lot_ of interest at my company in having one OS that runs on all our boxes (Intel, SP*RC, Alpha, now MIPS), and Linux is the preferred choice. The reasons don't necessarily have anything to do with disliking the native OS (except for Solaris, perhaps), but we _would_ like: - common file structure and apps - source compatibility - access to source for the firewall machines If the Solaris binary compatibility was up to hosting Oracle and the Netscape WWW servers[*], we'd probably have already gone that route on all but the 4d monster. I know that having Linux on SGI hardware would make it much easier to `sell' it into our environment, which includes solutions we deliver to clients. (And I don't get to make all that many purchasing decisions. =) ) [*] At the DevCon last week, the question of support for Linux was raised at the executive Q&A panel. There was a show of hands, and a _lot_ of people in the audience were interested in seeing SuiteSpot on Linux; Netscape's asked me to write them a little paper explaining why `people who aren't willing to pay for Linux would be willing to pay for SuiteSpot', and I'll send a copy around here when it's done. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Commando Developer - Whatever It Takes #> #> "See, you not only have to be a good coder to create a system like #> Linux, you have to be a sneaky bastard too." - Linus Torvalds From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 10:00:31 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA07666; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:00:30 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA19999 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:00:10 -0700 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA19917 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:00:06 -0700 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA21873 for linux@cthulhu; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:59:35 -0700 From: offer@sgi.com (richard offer) Message-Id: <9706200959.ZM21839@sgi.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:59:34 -0700 In-Reply-To: lm@neteng (Larry McVoy) "Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 20, 9:40am) References: <199706201640.JAA06720@neteng.engr.sgi.com> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1370 Lines: 42 * $ from lm@neteng at "20-Jun: 9:40am" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * : Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. * * OK, we won't try and sell you one. What about the people that would buy * an O2 to run Linux? * * You != . * This is once again turning into an advocacy war. We all at some point want to see the same thing, Linux on SGI. Some people are raging Linux advocates that think its the best thing since sliced bread and that all other OSs are inherently a Bad Thing[TM], others think it would just be neat/interesting thing to do. Others may even think that it could possible damage our competative advantage if we make too much of our hardware details public. Unfortunetly, the people that maybe able to help us often fall into the last category. If you want a favour from someone you don't start my telling them that what they've worked on for the last x years is dead and your way is the future. richard---pragmatist. _________________________________________________________________________ A Guest Signature by Michael Berube "Yes, we plot no less than the destruction of the West. Just the other day a friend and I came up with the most pernicious academic scheme to date for toppling the West: He will kneel behind the West on all fours. I will push it backwards over him." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 10:03:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA07582; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:59 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA20816 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:35 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20794; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:31 -0700 Received: from shire.ontko.com (shire.ontko.com [199.164.165.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA21104; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:30 -0700 env-from (todds@ontko.com) Received: from localhost (todds@localhost) by shire.ontko.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17280; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:06:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:06:49 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Shrider Reply-To: Todd Shrider To: Larry McVoy cc: Steve Alexander , "Christopher W. Carlson" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706201645.JAA07034@neteng.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1481 Lines: 39 On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Larry McVoy wrote: > Have you forgotten Nintendo 64 sales? I'm not sure as of what date, probably 3/31/97: N64 2.6 Million units (US) Super NES 40 million Gameboy 45 million Original NES 62 million Projected sales for the 12 months starting 4/1/97: 12 million N64 system units. I'd say that if the 64 was extended (with linux) to a set-top-box type application that this could be more like 18-20 million ($$$). If it's true that there are about 3 million linux users (estimates taken from the 97 ALE conference) how many of these people do you think would spend $200 for another xterm? I bet 1 million at least. So that's 19-21 million estimated sales for the next 12 months alone! With the expandibility of the N64 and the Linux OS I could see the 64 sky-rocketing past the original NES. I can just hear it know "But mom, I need a nintendo 64 with linux so I can get on the schools web page to get homework and stuff finished." Now the parents don't have anymore excuses not to buy a system for the kid. (Why do I feel like to tabaco industry now?) > MIPS Chips == $$$ for SGI. $$$ for SGI is what it is all about, that's what > feeds the light bills. If making a bunch of hackers happy turns into $$$ > for SGI in the long term, then we do it. At this point, I believe it is > obvious that that is the case. > --- Todd M. Shrider Oops, My brain just hit a bad sector! todds@ontko.com http://www.ontko.com/~todds From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 10:29:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA06340; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:29:00 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA29844 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:28:29 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA29827 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:28:26 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id KAA03347; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:28:25 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706201028.ZM3345@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:28:25 -0700 In-Reply-To: Steve Alexander "Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 20, 12:21am) References: <199706200721.AAA08929@refugee.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2229 Lines: 51 On Jun 20, 12:21am, Steve Alexander wrote: > Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI > "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: > >My point was that SGI is into making hardware. That's how it started > >and that is still its main focus. Yes, it is true that our software > >is very important because it takes advantage of the proprietary stuff > >in the hardware, but the main income for SGI is hardware. > > How many people buy the hardware and program the bare metal? > > >Note in any > >press releases and stock holder's documents how much is said about the > >wonderful software SGI produces (Alias/Wavefront is still a separate > >entity). You won't find much. > > That's a separate issue, which is that very few people here value software. > That will probably change with time if the company is going to continue to > be successful as the industry shifts. > > -- Steve >-- End of excerpt from Steve Alexander Ah! That's my point. As a company, the hardware is valued but the software isn't. Just because we *give* software with our hardware doesn't mean that we are a software oriented company. We are definitely hardware oriented. I've been arguing the point that software is as much of value as hardware for years. Look at Bill Gates! He didn't make it by selling hardware. Unfortunately, I've finally succumbed to the realization that SGI is a hardware company first. So, if one wants to make any points to upper management, it has to be in terms of "how much hardware are we going to sell?" If developing a really powerful *free* operating system, such as Linux, will sell lots of boxes, you can bet upper management will be interested. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 11:53:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12388; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:53:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA00847 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:53:15 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA00808 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:53:08 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA26183 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:53:04 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27076; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:43:05 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA31057; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:42:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199706201842.UAA31057@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Re: MAP_AUTOGROW To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:42:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706201817.OAA30967@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 20, 97 02:17:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1509 Lines: 36 > Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > > "Your" mkdep.c uses MAP_AUTOGROW, which doesn't appear in my Intel > > > kernel sources. > > > > > > This makes it kinda hard to xcompile. =) > > > > > > I'm going to try just removing the reference, and see if it breaks anything. > > > > Uhh... That's an ugly hack which I added to make the things run on > > IRIX and Solaris. I knew that it has some problems ... > > If I add something like: > #ifndef MAP_AUTOGROW > #define MAP_AUTOGROW 0 > #endif > > to the file and commit it, will that work OK? No, that's also an incorrect solution. Let me explain the bug in mkdep. When mkdep processes a file it does not read it into memory but it uses open(2) and mmap(2) and then parses the file using a highly optimized state machine. When mkdep reaches the end of the file the state machine may access some bytes beyond the mapped file. Under normal circumstances this makes no problems. If however the excess bytes are on the next page the mkdep will be sent a SIGBUS. This only happens on systems where the mmap does strictly conform to standards like IRIX or Solaris. For Linux mkdep uses a little trick, it tries to make more of the file than the file is long and Linux honors that trick by not sending the signal for an attempted access to the trailing bytes. By my (very strict) interpretation of POSIX / XPG4 Linux does the wrong thing and mkdep is based on this special Linux behaviour. The way I glue this by using MAP_AUTOGROW is also broken ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 12:50:18 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16681; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:50:18 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA16866 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:49:47 -0700 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16861; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:49:44 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA07201; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:49:18 -0700 From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706201949.MAA07201@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Linux or IRIX on O2s To: sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com (Steve Alexander) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu, lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706200839.BAA09420@refugee.engr.sgi.com> from "Steve Alexander" at Jun 20, 97 01:39:35 am Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1872 Lines: 45 : :"David S. Miller" writes: :>Don't get me wrong, I was constantly reminded what keeps the lights on :>in bldg. 9 when I was there last summer, but when and if Linux begins :>to do some (not all) of that "enabling", people might begin to :>perceive the situation a bit differently. : :Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to Linux on SGI. In fact, I'm in favor :of it, at least on some set of systems. I don't believe that Linux on 64P :O2000s makes a lot of sense yet, but I think it would be nice to have Linux :running on O200s and Indys. : :Personally, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux. : :-- Steve : Knowing Steve, I believe he meant: I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux _today_. Neither would I, because the current value of an O2 is in that big software chunk that can actually make it work and useful. IRIX/gfx/Xsgi/digital-media etc. In fact Linux wouldn't even run on an O2 today so the question is moot. But, if I would have the choice of a fully functional Linux with graphics and OpenGL, VRML 2.0 viewer etc. etc. I would prefer the openness of Linux over IRIX. The compelling reasons why people move in droves to Linux were expressed very eloquently by David, Mike, Todd Shrider, and others. I would sum it up as the "formidable advantage of free software and complete openness over proprietary models." The lack of this insight is what made IBM lose its dominance in the industry in the early 90s, what nearly killed Apple in recent years, and in 15 years, it is my belief (and hope), it is what will kill MS (Intel is much closer). SGI/MIPS has a great opportunity with its dominance in the low-end embedded market (19.2 m units in 1996 and by far the highest growth rates) to open up and we are somehow seeding this change. What is not obvious to many will become more and more obvious with time. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 13:17:14 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA17798; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:17:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA23993 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:16:50 -0700 Received: from aa5b.engr.sgi.com (aa5b.engr.sgi.com [150.166.36.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA23969; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:16:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (nigel@localhost) by aa5b.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id UAA03555; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:16:45 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Nigel Gamble To: "David S. Miller" cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-Reply-To: <199706200917.FAA07966@jenolan.caipgeneral> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2345 Lines: 45 On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, David S. Miller wrote: > He was given QNX to write his drivers and get the box going. Since it > is a micro-kernel, you have to perform a task switch to handle even an > interrupt, and you have to compile your interrupt handlers with a > special compiler and compiler options using QNX compilers just to cope > with this bullshit. This was on both systems. > > Interrupt response was so slow, that even when he coded the drivers in > raw optimized assembly he could not keep up and would drop characters > easily on his serial ports, the ISDN performance sucked balls as well. > > So eddie got so frustrated one night that he took both the m68k and > Intel ports of Linux, in about an hour added kernel build time > configuration options such as "CONFIG_NO_MEMORY_MANAGEMENT", > "CONFIG_NO_FANCY_SYSCALLS", "CONFIG_NO_USELESS_FEATURES" and the like > to the point where he was able to get a 120k sized Linux kernel with > his drivers and the specialized code to run the control systems he > needed to deploy, and he got full over the serial line KGDB source > level debugging of his kernel as well. > > The next night he got it completely working and debugged, needless to > say this thing didn't have the interrupt performance problems QNX > did. The next evening he blew the first revisions of the PROM's the > boxes would eventually use in production when these things got sent > to the customers. This tells me more about this guy's determination to use Linux, come what may, than it does about QNX. If he'd put half the effort into learning the QNX device driver model that he did into hacking Linux, I bet he could have solved his problem with QNX. I certainly could. When I first implemented a version of the Linux parallel port printer driver that used interrupts (because the polling driver was only printing one line every 30 seconds on my old dot-matrix printer), I discovered that my driver couldn't send characters fast enough to keep up with a laser printer. Does this imply that Linux's (non-threaded) interrupt performance sucked? No, it just meant that my naive first attempt was taking an interrupt for every character. Nigel Gamble "Are we going to push the edge of the envelope, Brain?" Silicon Graphics "No, Pinky, but we may get to the sticky part." nigel@sgi.com (415) 933-3109 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 14:43:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA20972; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:43:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA20353 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:43:25 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (fddi-refugee.engr.sgi.com [192.26.75.26]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA20341; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:43:22 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA12725; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706202143.OAA12725@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Cc: "David S. Miller" , carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-reply-to: Message from lm@neteng of 20 Jun 1997 9:40:27 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:43:21 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 108 Lines: 6 lm@neteng (Larry McVoy) writes: >You != . Really? Thanks for the tip. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 20 18:40:35 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA18862; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:40:35 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA11322 for linux-list; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:38:57 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA11311 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:38:55 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA17596 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:38:50 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA11557; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:34:49 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706210134.DAA11557@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id DAA06346; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:34:48 +0200 Subject: Re: CONFIG_REMOTE_DEBUG To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:34:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706201524.LAA25039@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 20, 97 11:24:09 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 255 Lines: 9 Hi, > Is this something that's useful enough to warrant me digging up the > cabling and software that I'd need to make it work? It's ages that I saw this in action for debugging a Mips Magnum kernel. I also think that David was using the stuff. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 22 10:57:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA09742; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:57:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA11308 for linux-list; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:36:32 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA11303; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:36:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA09811; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:36:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199706221736.KAA09811@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: Nigel Gamble From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: "David S. Miller" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:36:29 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1732 Lines: 30 : This tells me more about this guy's determination to use Linux, come : what may, than it does about QNX. If he'd put half the effort into : learning the QNX device driver model that he did into hacking Linux, : I bet he could have solved his problem with QNX. I certainly could. Why are you so sure that you could have made it work? I know Eddie, he's pretty bright and he isn't the sort of guy to use a hammer where you need a screwdriver, as you suggest. Even disregarding his approach, why are you so sure you could have made it work with QNX? Have you solved that problem before in QNX? Have you developed similar systems with QNX? If so, was it back before QNX had VM so it was quite lightweight? Have you revisted the issues recently? It sounds cocky of you to suggest that you could trivially solved the problem but I'm sure you'll be able to back it up with all the tecnhical details. As to your comments about the line printer driver, yes, we've heard that story before. It's great that you figured out how to do it right. However, what bearing does any of this have on our topic? The original topic, unless I'm mistaken, was questioning whether there was a reasonable market for Linux on embedded MIPS. While QNX is a great system, it doesn't run on MIPS and is therefor pretty uninteresting to us. While your experiences with the line printer are cool, does the fact that you had a learning experience with Linux driver writing have any bearing on Linux/MIPS sales? I'm a little lost as to where you were going with all this. If you want to spend time and energy here, it would be nice if you could help by figuring out the ways that Linux could be useful, and there are many to choose from, on MIPS. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 22 11:11:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA10806; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:11:55 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA12229 for linux-list; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:50:15 -0700 Received: from neteng.engr.sgi.com (neteng.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA12201 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:50:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (lm@localhost) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA09710; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:50:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199706221750.KAA09710@neteng.engr.sgi.com> To: fisher@sgi.com From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) cc: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com, sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, fisher@hollywood.engr.sgi.com (William Fisher) Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:50:07 -0700 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1146 Lines: 25 : If the demand for Linux on MIPS chips is comming from the "embedded" : systems then things sure have changed since the early days of : MIPS Computer Systems. I think it is safe to confirm that yes, indeeedy, the market has changed. : If fact the original VP of embedded system marketing at MIPS was : Chet Silvestri, now VP of SPARC embedded systems at SUN. I know Chet, and Chet was real interested in getting some free OS on embedded SPARC when I was at Sun. : Hence I would like to here more about larry's definition of : "embedded systems" because they sure don't sound like any : that our semiconductor partners sell to. I think almost 100% of what I would call embedded Linux on MIPS is for game platforms. What they really want is a full on Unix environment that they can use for development/debugging. When they get done, they want to rip out Linux/Unix and run an app on the bare hardware. They may eventually want to leave a stripped down Linux in there but I don't see why today. What they really want is a reasonable development environment and they are smart enough to realize they get there fastest with Linux. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 00:15:36 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA00177; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:15:36 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA16250 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:07:56 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA16234 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:07:40 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id JAA21805; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:07:26 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id JAA00638; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:07:26 +0200 Message-ID: <33AE20AD.237C@munich.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:07:25 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Christopher W. Carlson" CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI References: <199706200721.AAA08929@refugee.engr.sgi.com> <9706201028.ZM3345@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2121 Lines: 50 Christopher W. Carlson wrote: > > > Ah! That's my point. As a company, the hardware is valued but the > software isn't. Just because we *give* software with our hardware > doesn't mean that we are a software oriented company. We are > definitely hardware oriented. > I have to agree with Chris (a rarely do :-). Past behaviour of SGI has been that of a "HW oriented Systems Vendor". Which does not mean that the SW we ship is not important (to the contrary), but revenue (and profit) come mostly from the sales of HW. Only recently we seem to have discovered that some of our SW products make us real profit. Now, should we transform ourselves into a software company? I don't think so. I would like to see us as a solutions provider (HW+base-SW+Added-Value+Support). Long way to go for us. > I've been arguing the point that software is as much of value as > hardware for years. Look at Bill Gates! He didn't make it by selling > hardware. Unfortunately, I've finally succumbed to the realization > that SGI is a hardware company first. > Of course, he did not make his wealth by giving away the software :-) > So, if one wants to make any points to upper management, it has > to be in terms of "how much hardware are we going to sell?" If > developing a really powerful *free* operating system, such as > Linux, will sell lots of boxes, you can bet upper management > will be interested. > Yes, the almighty god of the Businesscase :-) Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 12:31:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA20333; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:31:56 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA16725 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:31:32 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16712 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:31:30 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id MAA08630; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:31:28 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706231231.ZM8628@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:31:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: Steve Alexander "Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 20, 1:20pm) References: <199706202020.NAA11950@refugee.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1620 Lines: 39 On Jun 20, 1:20pm, Steve Alexander wrote: > Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI > "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: > >Initially, I wouldn't buy an O2 to run Linux, either. But, after a > >while, I might consider puting Linux on it. If Linux was pretty well > >tuned (maybe not as well as IRIX but good enough) and I wanted to do > >some kernel tinkering, you can bet Linux would at least be on a > >partition. > > Why not just a PC? Cheaper, more expansion, probably better performance for > just plain kernel hacking. > > Unless you're doing graphics things, there's just no point in having an O2, > IMO. > > -- Steve >-- End of excerpt from Steve Alexander Yes, that's why I might want to run Linux on an O2. Since it isn't even an option yet, I'd run IRIX (if I had an O2). Also, if there was some bug in IRIX that kept me from doing something but the bug didn't exist in Linux, I might want to switch. It is far easier (and cheaper) to get a bug fixed in Linux than in IRIX. Especially if you can't afford the maintenance fees. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 12:43:58 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA21173; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:43:58 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA19353 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:43:42 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA19347 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:43:40 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id MAA08647; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:43:38 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706231243.ZM8645@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:43:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) "Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI" (Jun 22, 10:50am) References: <199706221750.KAA09710@neteng.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2164 Lines: 48 On Jun 22, 10:50am, Larry McVoy wrote: > > I think almost 100% of what I would call embedded Linux on MIPS is for > game platforms. What they really want is a full on Unix environment > that they can use for development/debugging. When they get done, > they want to rip out Linux/Unix and run an app on the bare hardware. > They may eventually want to leave a stripped down Linux in there but I > don't see why today. > > What they really want is a reasonable development environment and they are > smart enough to realize they get there fastest with Linux. >-- End of excerpt from Larry McVoy I would think that the reason they might want to have Linux running on some embedded system is the same as the reason Microsoft wants to run Windows on your microwave oven/television/VCR/etc... I'm sure it isn't "Windows", it's just the core drivers and stuff. I think the ultimate goal of Microsoft is to allow people to have everything electrical in their house networked together. Then they could turn on the microwave by logging into their home computer and telling it to turn on the microwave (of course that's just a pedagogical example). FYI, according to an article I read in New Yorker, Microsoft's goal is to get money every time one of their products is used. Thus, with the above scenerio, they could get a penny because you logged into your home computer and another penny because you enabled your microwave. I'd prefer to have Linux as the embedded system. Then my microwave can run some program using X windows and display it on my home computer's X server and Microsoft doesn't get anything! :-) -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 17:56:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA06757; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:56:32 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA13160 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:56:07 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (refugee.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.22]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA13143; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:56:04 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA28227; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706240055.RAA28227@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: "Christopher W. Carlson" Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Getting X on Linux/SGI In-reply-to: Message from carlson@heaven.newport.sgi.com of 23 Jun 1997 12:31:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:55:53 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 390 Lines: 12 "Christopher W. Carlson" writes: >It is far easier (and cheaper) to get a bug fixed in Linux than in IRIX. No doubt. >Especially if you can't afford the maintenance fees. I feel compelled to point out that you no longer need to be on support to get the recommended patches for IRIX. That's only a partial solution, but it's a good first step. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 18:33:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA23036; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:33:50 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA22211 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:33:33 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA22206 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:33:31 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA02193 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:33:18 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11492; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:20:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:20:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199706240120.UAA11492@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Keyboard/Mouse drivers on SGI X-Quote: If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1655 Lines: 41 Hello guys, More questions. I see that the Xsgi server uses /dev/input/mouse and /dev/output/keyboard. I can see from par's output that it does some STREAMS ioctls it I_PUSH'es something (I am not even remotely familiar to STREAMS, so I dunno what those I_PUSHes do). Can someone tell me if the X server does something interesting with those ioctls (as the man page for the keyboard/mouse did not mention anything interesting in this regard), or if it just reads from those devices in raw mode and decodes the information itself? On the SPARC, the server puts the keyboard and the mouse in a special mode (VUID mode) which makes the read(2) system call return records instead of returning a stream of bytes (ie, the client and the kernel agree to send information in structure-sized chunks). So, on the SPARC, those VUID records have all of the decoded information ready for X server to use, no further decoding takes place on the X server, the stuff is just put on the X servers's input queues by just copying fields. For example, in the mouse case, those VUID registers come with the dx/dy information as well as the buttons status all in a nicely packed record. Now, even if we have our own X server, I would like to make our X server and Xsgi use the same drivers and mechanisms for input (just to be able one day to run a stock Xsgi server on Linux, for those machines where a free X11R6 derivative will not work). I mean, I do not really care where the input decoding takes place in the server or in the kernel, I can go ahead and use a quickly hacked Sun-like VUID to do this in the meantime. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 23 21:15:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA08961; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:15:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA12404 for linux-list; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:15:32 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (refugee.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.22]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA12399; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:15:29 -0700 Received: from refugee.engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refugee.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA09580; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706240415.VAA09580@refugee.engr.sgi.com> To: Miguel de Icaza Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Keyboard/Mouse drivers on SGI In-reply-to: Message from miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx of 23 Jun 1997 20:20:03 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:15:29 -0700 From: Steve Alexander Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1413 Lines: 36 Miguel de Icaza writes: > I see that the Xsgi server uses /dev/input/mouse and >/dev/output/keyboard. I can see from par's output that it does some >STREAMS ioctls it I_PUSH'es something (I am not even remotely familiar >to STREAMS, so I dunno what those I_PUSHes do). I am not the best person to explain this, but my understanding is that the keyboard and mouse (or spaceball, etc...) are linked (I_LINKed) under a driver called 'shmiq,' which is the shared-memory event queue driver. This driver takes STREAMS data from the underlying devices and converts it into some sort of standard event queue. This allows events to be given to the X server in a standard format, and I believe that this is done by pinning memory in the X server and then copying events into this memory; I have no idea what happens if the server doesn't respond fast enough. My guess is that /dev/input/{keyboard,mouse} are both some sort of standard serial port driver and that the modules I_PUSHed on top are what interpret the low-level keyboard/mouse protocols. SCO use a similar approach; their driver is called 'ev' if I remember correctly. So, if my theory is correct, what I'd expect to see is: mfd = open /dev/input/mouse I_PUSH mfd "mouse" kfd = open /dev/input/keyboard I_PUSH kfd "keyboard" sfd = open /dev/shmiq I_LINK sfd mfd I_LINK sfd kfd More than that, I don't know. -- Steve From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:39:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA02439; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:39:25 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA02953 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:38:56 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA02940 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:38:54 -0700 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA17936 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:38:52 -0700 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA03158 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Some simple hardware questions... In-Reply-To: <199706201842.UAA31057@kernel.panic.julia.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 799 Lines: 24 I have some ultra simple hardware questions that I couldn't find answers to. Excuse the noviceness of it all, I haven't touched SGI hardware in quite some time. 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? Is it possible to boot from them? 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. Do Indy's have this too? What is the name of this controller? It would seem reasonably easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. 3. Do Indy's ship with CDROMs? As an aside, I asked Erik Troan for the source for the RedHat Install program, and he seems quite interested in SGI-Linux. - Alex Alex deVries "Alex can cut a mean rug." System Administrator - M. Dittberner The EngSoc Project From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:47:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA02699; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:47:00 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA05748 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:46:46 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA05724 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:46:44 -0700 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA21577 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:46:40 -0700 env-from (davem@caipfs.rutgers.edu) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16732; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA25791; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:44:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:44:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199706241644.MAA25791@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: (message from Alex deVries on Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 613 Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex deVries 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? Is it possible to boot from them? Yes, they are SCSI floppy drives. 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. Do Indy's have this too? What is the name of this controller? It would seem reasonably easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. No, but I believe some models were produced with EISA slots on the motherboard. 3. Do Indy's ship with CDROMs? Can't answer this one personally. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:51:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA03174; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:51:42 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA07046 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:51:04 -0700 Received: from piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (piecomputer.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.28]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA07034; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:51:02 -0700 Received: (from mende@localhost) by piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA01365; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706241648.JAA01365@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> From: Bob Mende Pie To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: (message from Alex deVries on Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 885 Lines: 22 > 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? Is it > possible to boot from them? There is an option on indy's that allow for a SCSI iomega floptical (21MB) drive. These drives are treated as a removable SCSI disk. You should be able to boot from them but I have never tried. > 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. Do Indy's have > this too? What is the name of this controller? It would seem reasonably > easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. The indy does not have PCI. They use a gio bus. > 3. Do Indy's ship with CDROMs? As an option there is an external CDROM. I believe that (nowadays) you have to really try to get a system without a cdrom. /Bob... mailto:mende@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/mende/ KF6EID From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:48:33 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA03009; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:33 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA06312 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:23 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA06297 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:19 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id SAA07484; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:48:14 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id SAA06986; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:48:12 +0200 Message-ID: <33AFFA4C.4DAA@munich.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:48:12 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex deVries CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1644 Lines: 42 Alex deVries wrote: > > I have some ultra simple hardware questions that I couldn't > find answers to. Excuse the noviceness of it all, I haven't > touched SGI hardware in quite some time. > > 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? > Is it possible to boot from them? > Oh no :-) No, Indys don't come usually with floppys. We offer a 20MB Floptical option (internal), or a normal floppy option (external). Both are not really popular with our customers. You might be able to boot from them, but this was probably never tested... > 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. > Do Indy's have this too? What is the name of this controller? > It would seem reasonably easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there > and port XFree86 to run on it. > No, Indy comes with our proprietary GIO bus. The GFX cards (8/24) plug on that. > 3. Do Indy's ship with CDROMs? > More often than with floppies, but it is an option. Not standard. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:52:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA03301; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:52:01 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA07283 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:51:51 -0700 Received: from piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (piecomputer.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.28]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA07275; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:51:49 -0700 Received: (from mende@localhost) by piecomputer.engr.sgi.com (970321.SGI.8.8.5/970502.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA07367; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706241648.JAA07367@piecomputer.engr.sgi.com> From: Bob Mende Pie To: davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu CC: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706241644.MAA25791@jenolan.caipgeneral> (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu) Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 499 Lines: 11 > 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. Do Indy's have > this too? What is the name of this controller? It would seem reasonably > easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. > > No, but I believe some models were produced with EISA slots on the > motherboard. I think that was the indigo2. /Bob... mailto:mende@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/mende/ KF6EID From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 09:54:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA03325; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:54:37 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA08336 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:54:20 -0700 Received: from sgiger.munich.sgi.com (sgiger.munich.sgi.com [144.253.192.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA08289 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:54:13 -0700 Received: from knobi.munich.sgi.com by sgiger.munich.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/940406.SGI) id SAA07715; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:54:06 +0200 Received: from knobi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobi.munich.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951220.SGI.AUTOCF.knobi) via SMTP id SAA07013; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:54:05 +0200 Message-ID: <33AFFBAD.773C@munich.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:54:05 +0200 From: Martin Knoblauch Organization: Silicon Graphics GmbH, Am-Hochacker 3, D-85630 Grasbrunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David S. Miller" CC: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... References: <199706241644.MAA25791@jenolan.caipgeneral> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1406 Lines: 36 David S. Miller wrote: > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT) > From: Alex deVries > > 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? > Is it possible to boot from them? > > Yes, they are SCSI floppy drives. > As I said: optional. No boot guarantee. > 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. > Do Indy's have this too? What is the name of this > controller? It would seem reasonably easy to slap a > PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. > > No, but I believe some models were produced with EISA slots > on the motherboard. > That is the Indigo2/Challenge-M series. Our first attempt on open expansion busses. Martin -- +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |Martin Knoblauch | Silicon Graphics GmbH | |Manager Technical Marketing | Am Hochacker 3 - Technopark | |Silicon Graphics Computer Systems| D-85630 Grasbrunn-Neukeferloh, FRG| |---------------------------------| Phone: (+int) 89 46108-179 or -0 | |http://reality.sgi.com/knobi | Fax: (+int) 89 46107-179 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ |e-mail: | VM: 6-333-8197 | M/S: IDE-3150 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 10:04:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA04067; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:04:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA11140 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:03:34 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA11087; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:03:26 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA24742; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:03:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:03:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199706241703.KAA24742@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... In-Reply-To: References: <199706201842.UAA31057@kernel.panic.julia.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 990 Lines: 24 Alex deVries writes: > > I have some ultra simple hardware questions that I couldn't find answers > to. Excuse the noviceness of it all, I haven't touched SGI hardware in > quite some time. > > 1. Do Indy's come equipped with floppy drives? What are they? Is it > possible to boot from them? An Indy does not come with a floppy drive standard, but it does support both a floppy and a floptical drive. Both are SCSI drives, and you should be able to boot from them, since the boot software does not distinguish among drive types. > 2. I know O2's have PCI busses with a custom controller. Do Indy's have > this too? What is the name of this controller? It would seem reasonably > easy to slap a PCI VGA card in there and port XFree86 to run on it. No, the Indy has the SGI-specific GIO bus. > 3. Do Indy's ship with CDROMs? An Indy does not come with a CDROM by default, but most SCSI CDROM drives should work. (There is a supported SGI CDROM drive.) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 12:05:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16647; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:05:01 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA20810 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:04:35 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA20804; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:04:32 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA25297; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:04:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:04:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199706241904.MAA25297@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Steve Alexander Cc: Miguel de Icaza , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Keyboard/Mouse drivers on SGI In-Reply-To: <199706240415.VAA09580@refugee.engr.sgi.com> References: <199706240415.VAA09580@refugee.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1281 Lines: 36 Steve Alexander writes: ... > My guess is that /dev/input/{keyboard,mouse} are both some sort of standard > serial port driver and that the modules I_PUSHed on top are what interpret the > low-level keyboard/mouse protocols. > > SCO use a similar approach; their driver is called 'ev' if I remember > correctly. > > So, if my theory is correct, what I'd expect to see is: > > mfd = open /dev/input/mouse > I_PUSH mfd "mouse" > kfd = open /dev/input/keyboard > I_PUSH kfd "keyboard" > > sfd = open /dev/shmiq > I_LINK sfd mfd > I_LINK sfd kfd > > More than that, I don't know. There are drivers for the actual devices, such as pckm on Indy, to operate the actual keyboard controller, and then there are higher level streams modules, such as pckbd and pcmouse on Indy, which know about the keyboard and mouse devices (and other devices, such as tablets). The IRIX pckeyboard(7) and pcmouse(7) man pages document the supported keyboards and mice. As far as I know, the interface to the streams modules is not well-documented, as it is used directly only by the X server and the textport driver. For the time being, I recommend that you go with the usual linux driver for PC keyboard/mouse controller, which the Indy hardware emulates. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 15:43:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA06457; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:43:46 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA21431 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:43:30 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA21412 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:43:27 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA24009 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:43:17 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20473; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:29:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:29:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199706242229.RAA20473@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: (message from Alex deVries on Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... X-FileLength: are infinite where infinity is set to 255 characters Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 192 Lines: 7 > As an aside, I asked Erik Troan for the source for the RedHat Install > program, and he seems quite interested in SGI-Linux. it is distributed as part of redhat 4.2 on ftp siets. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 16:17:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA04159; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:17:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA01900 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:16:53 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA01867 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:16:49 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA03974 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:16:34 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA20840; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:02:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:02:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199706242302.SAA20840@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de CC: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706242305.BAA09535@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> (message from Ralf Baechle on Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:05:24 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... X-Windows: It could be worse, but it'll take time. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 287 Lines: 10 > > it is distributed as part of redhat 4.2 on ftp siets. > > I assume you're talking about the little endian binaries which they're > mirroring from kernel panic. As I said, they're little endian ... Well, I was thinking in Red Hat's source code for their install program. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 16:06:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA21653; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:06:17 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA28163 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:05:51 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA28102 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:05:44 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA00212 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:05:38 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA09535; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:05:29 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706242305.BAA09535@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id BAA18220; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:05:25 +0200 Subject: Re: Some simple hardware questions... To: miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx (Miguel de Icaza) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:05:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706242229.RAA20473@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> from "Miguel de Icaza" at Jun 24, 97 05:29:38 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 342 Lines: 11 Hi, > > As an aside, I asked Erik Troan for the source for the RedHat Install > > program, and he seems quite interested in SGI-Linux. > > it is distributed as part of redhat 4.2 on ftp siets. I assume you're talking about the little endian binaries which they're mirroring from kernel panic. As I said, they're little endian ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Jun 24 21:29:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA04709; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:29:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA03230 for linux-list; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:28:42 -0700 Received: from rm.engr.sgi.com (rm.engr.sgi.com [192.48.150.10]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA03226; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:28:40 -0700 Received: (from piet@localhost) by rm.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA02737; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:28:41 -0700 From: "Pete Delaney" Message-Id: <9706242128.ZM2735@rm.engr.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:28:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: test Cc: piet@piet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 23 Lines: 4 test -- Pete Delaney From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 25 14:07:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA12838; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:07:29 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA23922 for linux-list; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:07:13 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA23851 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:07:02 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA26426 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:06:41 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA06108; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:06:00 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706252106.XAA06108@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id XAA24520; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:05:56 +0200 Subject: State of the kernel To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:05:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tsbogend@alpha.franken.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 539 Lines: 14 Hi all, with today's commits into the CVS archive the kernel is slowly becoming useable again after the SGI source merge. The major remaining bug for now is that network applications (mount -t nfs, telnet ...) still seem not to work. I was able to rebuild some of the standard utilities native running Linux 2.1.43 and glibc 2.0.4 without problems, so we're coming closer. Aside of the mentioned networking bug next on my list is packaging a couple of binaries so that you people out there can begin to use Linux a little bit. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Jun 25 21:21:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA22057; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:21:07 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA05107 for linux-list; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:20:53 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA05089 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:20:47 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA29960 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:20:46 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA15089 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:20:19 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706260420.AAA15089@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Intel tools suspect, film at 11 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:20:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 858 Lines: 20 Well, I can build a (working) kernel with the IRIX-hosted tools, and not the Intel-hosted ones, so I'm beginning to suspect that it's not _just_ my incompetence at work. There are some config bugs (need ISO9660 and NFSD, don't compile in REMOTE_DEBUG) that I'll commit fixes for once I get the IRIX stuff talking cvs and ssh. I'm going to try building native-gcc with the IRIX stuff, since it kinda-almost worked off Intel in such a way that makes me want to blame it on the tools. =) Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Chief System Architect -- Head geek -- System exorcist #> #> "Have you considered a life? I hear they're quite affordable #> these days." --- shields@tembel.org From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 07:52:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA23139; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:52:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA06172 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:52:06 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA06159 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:52:03 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA01036 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:49:55 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA29376; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:49:24 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706261449.QAA29376@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id QAA27907; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:49:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Intel tools suspect, film at 11 To: shaver@neon.ingenia.ca (Mike Shaver) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:49:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706260420.AAA15089@neon.ingenia.ca> from "Mike Shaver" at Jun 26, 97 00:20:19 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 290 Lines: 10 Hi, > Well, I can build a (working) kernel with the IRIX-hosted tools, and > not the Intel-hosted ones, so I'm beginning to suspect that it's not > _just_ my incompetence at work. Sorry, but the tools work 100% for Intel. I've been using them for one or two eternities on Intel. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 08:10:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA09750; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:10:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA09005 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:09:53 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA09000 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:09:51 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA06505 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:09:50 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA18745; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:01:48 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706261501.LAA18745@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: Re: Intel tools suspect, film at 11 In-Reply-To: <199706261449.QAA29376@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> from Ralf Baechle at "Jun 26, 97 04:49:21 pm" To: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 869 Lines: 25 Thus spake Ralf Baechle: > > Well, I can build a (working) kernel with the IRIX-hosted tools, and > > not the Intel-hosted ones, so I'm beginning to suspect that it's not > > _just_ my incompetence at work. > > Sorry, but the tools work 100% for Intel. I've been using them for > one or two eternities on Intel. That doesn't reflect too well on me then, does it? =) Seriously though, I'm at a loss. I can build a kernel with the IRIX tools, and I can't with the Intel ones. I'll blow everything away and reinstall, I guess. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Welcome to the technocracy. #> #> "you'd be so disappointed #> to find out that the magic was not #> really meant for you" - OLP From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 11:46:44 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA16484; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:46:43 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA17963 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:46:26 -0700 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA17934 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:46:22 -0700 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA11570 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:46:22 -0700 From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199706261846.LAA11570@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: anon-ftp enabled on linus To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI/Linux mailing list) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: ariel@sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 793 Lines: 25 FYI: I just enabled public ftp access to linus.linux.sgi.com ftpd runs as user/group ftp/ftp. The chroot'ed location (~ftp) is /src (where the CVS tree resides) I made sure that the source tree has no world write permissions or ftp group write permissions anywhere. Since IRIX comes only with a dynamically liked '/bin/ls' I had to add /lib/rld libc.so and /dev/zero rooted at /src for dir to work. I made all the permissions secure but another check would be appreciated. If anyone feels like building the latest wu-ftpd (with all security patches) and replace the SGI ftpd - welcome. A web site is planned too. I hope we got a volunteer to set it up. Let's keep the public areas only on the /src partition. I suggest /src/www (or some such) for the web doc root. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 11:59:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA16742; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:59:57 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA22044 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:59:31 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA22023 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:59:27 -0700 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA26528 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:59:12 -0700 env-from (ralf@informatik.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from dali..uni-koblenz (ralf@dali.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.5.1]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00700; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:58:20 +0200 (MEST) From: Ralf Baechle Message-Id: <199706261858.UAA00700@informatik.uni-koblenz.de> Subject: Re: anon-ftp enabled on linus To: ariel@sgi.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:55:56 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199706261846.LAA11570@oz.engr.sgi.com> from "Ariel Faigon" at Jun 26, 97 11:46:22 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 568 Lines: 19 Hi, > Since IRIX comes only with a dynamically liked '/bin/ls' > I had to add /lib/rld libc.so and /dev/zero rooted at /src > for dir to work. > If anyone feels like building the latest wu-ftpd (with all security > patches) and replace the SGI ftpd - welcome. If someone wants do work on this - I've got an modified wu-ftpd 2.4 with a builtin ls command. Would be nice to have that in linus' ftpd, too. > A web site is planned too. I hope we got a volunteer to set it up. Alan is already complaining. I told him that I consider port 80 burned land ;-) Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 12:58:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA18811; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:58:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA13066 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:58:40 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA13052 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:58:38 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA16312 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:58:37 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08245; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:44:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:44:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199706261944.OAA08245@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ariel@sgi.com CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706261846.LAA11570@oz.engr.sgi.com> (ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: anon-ftp enabled on linus X-Lost: In case of doubt, make it sound convincing Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 315 Lines: 10 > A web site is planned too. I hope we got a volunteer to set it up. > > Let's keep the public areas only on the /src partition. I suggest > /src/www (or some such) for the web doc root. Heh. This will be a nice addition. Alan has been complaining about www.linux.sgi.com not showing up anything :-) Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 17:32:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA19207; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:32:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA26599 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:32:38 -0700 Received: from heaven.newport.sgi.com (heaven.newport.sgi.com [169.238.102.134]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA26561 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:32:32 -0700 Received: by heaven.newport.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for linux@engr id RAA03068; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:32:30 -0700 From: "Christopher W. Carlson" Message-Id: <9706261732.ZM3066@heaven.newport.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:32:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) "anon-ftp enabled on linus" (Jun 26, 11:46am) References: <199706261846.LAA11570@oz.engr.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: anon-ftp enabled on linus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1921 Lines: 55 On Jun 26, 11:46am, Ariel Faigon wrote: > Subject: anon-ftp enabled on linus > FYI: > > I just enabled public ftp access to linus.linux.sgi.com > ftpd runs as user/group ftp/ftp. > > The chroot'ed location (~ftp) is /src (where the CVS tree resides) > > I made sure that the source tree has no world write permissions > or ftp group write permissions anywhere. > > Since IRIX comes only with a dynamically liked '/bin/ls' > I had to add /lib/rld libc.so and /dev/zero rooted at /src > for dir to work. I made all the permissions secure but > another check would be appreciated. > > If anyone feels like building the latest wu-ftpd (with all security > patches) and replace the SGI ftpd - welcome. > > A web site is planned too. I hope we got a volunteer to set it up. > > Let's keep the public areas only on the /src partition. I suggest > /src/www (or some such) for the web doc root. > > -- > Peace, Ariel >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon BTW, I don't know if anybody cares but... I have a defkeymap.map which generates all the escape sequences for the IRIX keyboard. IOW, it generates all the F1, F2,... escape sequences to match what IRIX does. It can be retrieved from http://reality.sgi.com/carlson_newport/files/defkeymap.map Be sure to use the right mouse button and select "Save link as ..." because Netscape tries to read it as an image file. -- Chris Carlson +------------------------------------------------------+ | Also, carlson@sgi.com | | Work: (714) 224-4530 | | Vnet: 6-678-4530 FAX: (714) 833-9503 | | | | Trivia fact: an electroencephalogram shows that a | | human brain and a bowl of quivering lime Jell-O have | | the same waves. [Time Magazine, Mar 17, 1997] | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Jun 26 18:47:09 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA09489; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:47:09 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA13887 for linux-list; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:46:38 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA13882; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:46:36 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA24368; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:46:30 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11076; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:32:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:32:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199706270132.UAA11076@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com CC: sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199706241904.MAA25297@fir.engr.sgi.com> (wje@fir.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: Keyboard/Mouse drivers on SGI X-Windows: A terminal disease. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 453 Lines: 14 > For the time being, I recommend that you go with the usual linux > driver for PC keyboard/mouse controller, which the Indy hardware > emulates. I may probably go with a SunOS-like mode of this, since it may be the easier to hack on the X server I am using right now (X11R6.1, and I plan to move to X11R6.3 once I have the thing demoable). Later I could sit down and write the emulation mode for a couple of the STREAMS ioctls. Cheers, Miguel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 27 07:32:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA06438; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:32:12 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA17076 for linux-list; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:31:53 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA17059 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:31:51 -0700 Received: from alles.intern.julia.de (loehnberg1.core.julia.de [194.221.49.2]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA28530 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:31:32 -0700 env-from (ralf@Julia.DE) Received: from kernel.panic.julia.de (kernel.panic.julia.de [194.221.49.153]) by alles.intern.julia.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06654 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:19:22 +0200 From: Ralf Baechle Received: (from ralf@localhost) by kernel.panic.julia.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12191 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:19:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199706271419.QAA12191@kernel.panic.julia.de> Subject: Crypto software To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:19:54 +0200 (MET DST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 297 Lines: 6 While mirroring kernel.panic to linus I noticed that I have crypto software (mipsel-linux binaries of ssh-1.2.17) on it. So the question is now how we handle this. Should we not make these binaries available at all on linus or is adding a banner "Don't download this if ..." sufficient? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 27 09:42:14 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA09242; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:42:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA09741 for linux-list; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:41:51 -0700 Received: from odin.corp.sgi.com (odin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.194]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA09715; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:41:49 -0700 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com by odin.corp.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/951211.SGI) id JAA06533; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:06:08 -0700 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA29443; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:06:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:06:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199706271606.JAA29443@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Miguel de Icaza Cc: sca@refugee.engr.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Keyboard/Mouse drivers on SGI In-Reply-To: <199706270132.UAA11076@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> References: <199706241904.MAA25297@fir.engr.sgi.com> <199706270132.UAA11076@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1002 Lines: 21 Miguel de Icaza writes: > > > For the time being, I recommend that you go with the usual linux > > driver for PC keyboard/mouse controller, which the Indy hardware > > emulates. > > I may probably go with a SunOS-like mode of this, since it may be the > easier to hack on the X server I am using right now (X11R6.1, and I > plan to move to X11R6.3 once I have the thing demoable). > > Later I could sit down and write the emulation mode for a couple of > the STREAMS ioctls. The streams ioctl's don't do much in themselves, except in the sense that they turn on other behavior by pushing streams modules. The latter have more complex behavior. You could hack I_PUSH of a given name to enable specific behavior, and then implement that behavior. The pushed streams module is responsible for controlling the device (keyboard, mouse, tablet, and so on), whereas the driver is mostly responsible for managing the link controller or serial port to which the device is attached. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Jun 27 17:21:19 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA00580; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:21:19 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA26412 for linux-list; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:19:52 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA26373 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:19:47 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA03618 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:18:23 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21239; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:03:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:03:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199706280003.TAA21239@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Small question regarind gfx api. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 461 Lines: 12 In the /usr/include/sys/gfx.h file some of the ioctls that are supported for /dev/graphics are tagged with a comment that says that you have to be the board owner to issue those commands. My question is: how do you become the board owner? Right now my X server uses a single file descriptor for /dev/graphics for all of the boards attached to the system, since it appears to me that every GFX ioctl requires the board number on which it operates. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Jun 29 17:13:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA15291; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:13:26 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA22826 for linux-list; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:13:07 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA22815 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:13:04 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA27124 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:13:03 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01304; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:58:35 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:58:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199706292358.SAA01304@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Xsgi Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 325 Lines: 10 Ok, I now have Xsgi filling my screen with the background, now it crashes on my dummy keyboard/mouse devices. I will now do those drivers and then hack the X server to use them. btw, I am told that Xfree 3.3 is based on X11R6.3, so this may probably be the best source base. I am right now using X11R6.1 cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 30 10:29:43 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA05840; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:29:43 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA21962 for linux-list; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:29:10 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA21923 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:29:08 -0700 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA00756 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:27:30 -0700 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06962; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:12:50 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:12:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199706301712.MAA06962@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: newport misc questions Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 925 Lines: 24 Hello guys, Since an X server that uses the block-fill command for drawing patterns is not the fastest thing you could be a witness of, I came up with a new set of questions for all of you: 1. How can I use the newport stipple mode registers and the 32-bit stipple pattern register to draw thingies in the screen? 2. If you have any documentation on what the operations for the drawmode0 register are, I would appreciate a copy of it (actually, I would appreciate the whole doc :-) 3. How can I load the color pallete on the newport? I have the feeling that the newport supports an 8-bit+pallete mode and a 24-bit true-color mode, which leds to the next question. 4. How can I command the newport to draw on the 8 bit plane or to draw on the 24-bit plane? That is, assuming I haven't been smoking chemicals and that there really are 8 and 24 bit planes. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jun 30 10:58:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA17648; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA00849 for linux-list; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:58:02 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA00813 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:57:55 -0700 Received: from neon.ingenia.ca (neon.ingenia.ca [205.207.220.57]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA12311 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:57:54 -0700 env-from (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) Received: (from shaver@localhost) by neon.ingenia.ca (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA07279; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:54:24 -0400 From: Mike Shaver Message-Id: <199706301754.NAA07279@neon.ingenia.ca> Subject: ncurses To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle), miguel@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (Miguel de Icaza) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 641 Lines: 15 ncurses is built, and it was pretty clean (now that I've got tools to munge Makefiles for me). I'll build a tarball with includes and libs suitable for unpacking in /usr/local/mips-linux on the crossdev machine or /usr on the Indy itself and stick it on linus shortly. Mike -- #> Mike Shaver (shaver@ingenia.com) Ingenia Communications Corporation #> Chief System Architect -- Head geek -- System exorcist #> #> "Have you considered a life? I hear they're quite affordable #> these days." --- shields@tembel.org