From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Nov 30 18:22:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA709869 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:22:41 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA16255 for linux-list; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:18:28 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA16247 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:18:17 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA15063 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:18:16 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA01551; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:15 +0100 (MET) Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id DAA14841; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:13 +0100 Message-ID: <19971201031813.06139@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:13 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: More news... References: <19971130172918.59762@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 08:41:40PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 667 Lines: 23 > The bad news: > > Still more libc problems, but I'll quit whining about that since Ralf > kindly told me to cross cross my own. I'm looking at my cross-compiler > problems now. > > Next problem: > I was running a ./configure for the nfs-server package, and I got a few > segfaults, followed by many copies of this on the console: Don't worry to much about those do_page_fault ... messages, when running configure it is what you have to expect. > release_dev: pty1: read/write wait queue active! > > and finally: > Got a bus error IRQ, shouldn't happen yet > and a freeze. Sigh, that one is really annoying. I smells like an Ethernet driver problem. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Nov 30 22:47:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA745109 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:53 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA12203 for linux-list; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:45:30 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA12195 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:45:27 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA29609 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:45:26 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12762; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:45:16 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:45:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199712010645.AAA12762@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <19971130025848.64926@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> (message from Ralf Baechle on Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:58:48 +0100) Subject: Re: A report from the battle field... X-FileLength: are infinite where infinity is set to 255 characters Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 231 Lines: 10 > > - mingetty: > > unix_gc: deferred due to low memory > > Uh? Never saw that one. he is using a 4+ month old kernel. This has been fixed in the CVS for a long time now. It was caused because of my vmalloc mistake. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 07:07:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA750672 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:07:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA01620 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:01:22 -0800 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA01614 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:01:18 -0800 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/930416.SGI) id KAA22164; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:01:17 -0500 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA15767; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:01:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3482D13C.38B70C0B@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:01:16 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas F. Elznic" CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Used Indys References: <3.0.2.32.19971129153944.0072bc38@192.168.4.20> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 846 Lines: 23 Douglas F. Elznic wrote: > > Hello, > I am looking to get my hangs on a old cheap indy. I found a couple of > places on the web that catered to sell cheap sparcs but no indys. Any ideas? Go to www.sgi.com and search for System remarketing -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer/RSA eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" "I am the great supportfolio, do you have http?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 09:21:24 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA753775 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:21:24 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA29405 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:22 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA29334 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:10 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA27921 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:03 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-11.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.11]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12394 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:17:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07601; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:23:34 +0100 Message-ID: <19971201172332.21564@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:23:32 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Merging source trees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 185 Lines: 7 Hi all, I'm about to merge more code back to Linus. My source tree has diverged significantly and so it's not unlikely that I'll break something. So please check things out. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 09:21:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA753649 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:21:26 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA29414 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:23 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA29380 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:16 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA27957 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:13 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-11.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.11]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12389 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:16:59 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07625; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:29:25 +0100 Message-ID: <19971201172924.64009@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:29:24 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: SGI specific header files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 231 Lines: 7 Miguel, you've added a couple of SGI specific header files for the GFX hardware. If we're going to use the same interfaces as the native Linux interfaces also, then we should probably add them to libc. What do you think? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 12:23:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA03249 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:23:24 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA12920 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:55:24 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA12735 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:55:00 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA11207 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:54:53 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA19520; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:53:55 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:53:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199712011753.LAA19520@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <19971201172924.64009@uni-koblenz.de> (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) Subject: Re: SGI specific header files X-Quote: If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 374 Lines: 11 > you've added a couple of SGI specific header files for the GFX hardware. > If we're going to use the same interfaces as the native Linux interfaces > also, then we should probably add them to libc. What do you think? Good idea. I will not be able to hack on the code until monday next week though. I am going to have a gnome meeting at red hat (weee!) ;-). Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 10:16:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA01368 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:16:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA19349 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:12:54 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA19286 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:12:38 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA17431 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:12:36 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-11.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.11]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14930 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:12:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08479; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:09:24 +0100 Message-ID: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:09:23 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Seeq Ethernet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 194 Lines: 7 Hi, _the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of the required docs, the HPC docs. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 10:30:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA01695 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:30:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA24374 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:16 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA24360 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:14 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA35756 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:14 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712011827.KAA35756@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Seeq Ethernet To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI/Linux mailing list) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> from "ralf@uni-koblenz.de" at Dec 1, 97 07:09:23 pm Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 584 Lines: 22 : :_the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix :it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of :the required docs, the HPC docs. : : Ralf : Ralf, I tried to search internally for relevant bits and found this: http://www.sgi.com/Support/QNA/FAQ.book_1339.html http://www.sgi.com/Support/QNA/FAQ.book_1315.html http://www.sgi.com/Support/SCR/incidents/376000/376872.html I cannot see a spec but the Seeq Tech home page seems to have all the datasheets (in PDF format only) online: http://www.seeq.com/ -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 10:43:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA01886 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:43:50 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA28291 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:25 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA28247 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:22 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA26150 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:15 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA20186; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:38:52 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:38:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199712011838.MAA20186@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) Subject: Re: Seeq Ethernet X-Windows: Power tools for power losers. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 296 Lines: 9 > _the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix > it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of > the required docs, the HPC docs. The HPC docs come with a pretty good description of the Seeq, it is just kind of hidden in there. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 11:02:28 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA02124 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA04375 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:58:06 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA04315 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:57:57 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA02321 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:57:54 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04412; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:54:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:54:20 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Seeq Ethernet In-Reply-To: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 364 Lines: 13 On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > _the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix > it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of > the required docs, the HPC docs. FWIW, the ethernet problems I reported are from an old kernel. They may have been patched. What problems are you seeing? - A From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 11:15:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA02269 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:15:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA09290 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:11:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA09278 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:11:43 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA07106 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:11:40 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-11.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.11]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17174 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:32 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08976; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:08:03 +0100 Message-ID: <19971201200802.41769@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:08:02 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Seeq Ethernet References: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 01:54:20PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 621 Lines: 17 On Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 01:54:20PM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > > _the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix > > it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of > > the required docs, the HPC docs. > > FWIW, the ethernet problems I reported are from an old kernel. They may > have been patched. > > What problems are you seeing? Exactly what you have reported. Wiered enough those problems recently started to trouble me. In older kernel I didn't see them and the driver didn't change. We'll see ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 11:19:31 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA02303 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:19:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA11559 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:19:00 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA11517 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:54 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA09234 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:51 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-great-packet-bucket-in-the-sky [163.164.160.21] (may be forged)) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA07480; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:17:55 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xcbNU-0005FsC; Mon, 1 Dec 97 19:19 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Seeq Ethernet To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:19:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <19971201190923.06958@uni-koblenz.de> from "ralf@uni-koblenz.de" at Dec 1, 97 07:09:23 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 373 Lines: 9 > _the_ current problem for Linux/Indy is the Ethernet driver. Time to fix > it. Can anybody point me to docs for that chip? I only have one half of > the required docs, the HPC docs. Talk to Russel King. He has a solid working SEQ800x driver from the ARM port that knows most of the SEEQ chip bugs. You may want to merge drivers as well http://www.arm.uk.linux.org From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 1 15:42:34 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA07344 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:42:34 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA03682 for linux-list; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:37:22 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA03674 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:37:20 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA28376 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:37:18 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-10.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.10]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25680 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:37:13 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10678; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:31:21 +0100 Message-ID: <19971202003120.47636@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:31:20 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Terminal type "linux" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4170 Lines: 82 Hi all, since I often use the Linux text consoles I found it a little bit annoying that IRIX doesn't know the terminal type linux. The terminfo descriptions below are based on the data collection included with ncurses for the terminal types ``linux'', ``linux-m'' and ``linux-nic''. I modified the descriptions such that they don't refer to other terminal types anymore. You can simply compile them with tic. Ralf # This entry is good for the 1.2.13 version of the Linux console driver. # # Note: there are numerous broken linux entries out there, which didn't screw # up BSD termcap but hose ncurses's smarter cursor-movement optimization. # One common pathology is an incorrect tab length of 4. # # *************************************************************************** # * * # * WARNING: * # * Linuxes come with a default keyboard mapping kcbt=^I. This entry, in * # * response to user requests, assumes kcbt=\E[Z, the ANSI/ECMA reverse-tab * # * character. Here are the keymap replacement lines that will set this up: * # * * # keycode 15 = Tab Tab # alt keycode 15 = Meta_Tab # shift keycode 15 = F26 # string F26 ="\033[Z" # * * # * This has to use a key slot which is unfortunate (any unused one will * # # do, F26 is the higher-numbered one). The change ought to be built * # * into the kernel tables. * # * * # *************************************************************************** # # The 1.3.x kernels add color-change capabilities; if yours doesn't have this # and it matters, turn off . The %02x escape used to implement this is # not back-portable to SV curses and not supported in ncurses versions before # 1.9.9. # # From: Eric S. Raymond 15 Dec 1995 linux|linux console, am, bce, ccc, eo, mir, msgr, xenl, xon, cols#80, it#8, lines#25, bel=^G, civis=\E[?25l, clear=\E[H\E[J, cnorm=\E[?25h, cr=^M, csr=\E[%i%p1%d;%p2%dr, cub1=^H, cud1=^J, cuf1=\E[C, cup=\E[%i%p1%d;%p2%dH, cuu1=\E[A, dch=\E[%p1%dP, dch1=\E[P, dim=\E[2m, dl=\E[%p1%dM, dl1=\E[M, ed=\E[J, el=\E[K, flash=\E[?5h\E[?5l$<200/>, home=\E[H, hpa=\E[%i%p1%dG, ht=^I, hts=\EH, ich=\E[%p1%d@, ich1=\E[@, il=\E[%p1%dL, il1=\E[L, ind=^J, initc=\E]P%p1%x%p2%02x%p3%02x%p4%02x, kb2=\E[G, kbs=\177, kcbt=\E[Z, kcub1=\E[D, kcud1=\E[B, kcuf1=\E[C, kcuu1=\E[A, kdch1=\E[3~, kend=\E[4~, kf1=\E[[A, kf10=\E[21~, kf11=\E[23~, kf12=\E[24~, kf13=\E[25~, kf14=\E[26~, kf15=\E[28~, kf16=\E[29~, kf17=\E[31~, kf18=\E[32~, kf19=\E[33~, kf2=\E[[B, kf20=\E[34~, kf3=\E[[C, kf4=\E[[D, kf5=\E[[E, kf6=\E[17~, kf7=\E[18~, kf8=\E[19~, kf9=\E[20~, khome=\E[1~, kich1=\E[2~, knp=\E[6~, kpp=\E[5~, kspd=^Z, nel=^M^J, oc=\E]R, op=\E[m, rc=\E8, rev=\E[7m, ri=\EM, rmir=\E[4l, rmul=\E[24m, rs1=\Ec, sc=\E7, sgr=\E[0;10%?%p1%t;7%;%?%p2%t;4%;%?%p3%t;7%;%?%p4%t;5%;%?%p5%t;2%;%?%p6%t;1%;%?%p7%t;8%;%?%p9%t;11%;m, smir=\E[4h, tbc=\E[3g, u6=\E[%i%d;%dR, u7=\E[6n, u8=\E[?6c, u9=\E[c, vpa=\E[%i%p1%dd, blink=\E[5m, bold=\E[1m, invis=\E[8m, rev=\E[7m, rmacs=\E[10m, rmpch=\E[10m, rmso=\E[m, rmul=\E[m, sgr=\E[0;10%?%p1%t;7%;%?%p2%t;4%;%?%p3%t;7%;%?%p4%t;5%;%?%p6%t;1%;%?%p7%t;8%;%?%p9%t;11%;m, sgr0=\E[0;10m, smacs=\E[11m, smpch=\E[11m, smso=\E[7m, smul=\E[4m, colors#8, ncv#3, pairs#64, op=\E[37;40m, setab=\E[4%p1%dm, setaf=\E[3%p1%dm, setb=\E[%p1%{40}%+%dm, setf=\E[%p1%{30}%+%dm, acsc=`\004a\261f\370g\361h\260j\331k\277l\332m\300n\305o~q\304r\362s_t\303u\264v\301w\302x\263y\371z\372{\373|\374}\375~\376.\031-\030\054\021+^P0\333p\304r\304y\363z\362{\343|\330}\234, rmacs=\E[10m, smacs=\E[11m, linux-m|Linux console no color, colors@, pairs@, setab@, setaf@, setb@, setf@, use=linux, linux-nic|linux with ich/ich1 suppressed for non-curses programs, ich@, ich1@, use=linux, From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 17:14:15 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA03631 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:14:15 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA06578 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:09:42 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA06550 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:09:34 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA06105 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:09:32 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-14.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.14]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16383 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:09:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17799; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:01:47 +0100 Message-ID: <19971202200147.44637@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:01:47 +0100 To: Miguel de Icaza Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr Subject: vmalloc hacks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 864 Lines: 19 Hi Miguel, building the CVS tree for the Indy breaks with mips/kernel/head.o arch/mips/kernel/init_task.o init/main.o init/version.o \ arch/mips/kernel/kernel.o arch/mips/mm/mm.o kernel/kernel.o mm/mm.o fs/fs.o ipc/ipc.o \ fs/filesystems.a \ net/network.a \ drivers/block/block.a drivers/char/char.a drivers/misc/misc.a drivers/net/net.a drivers/scsi/scsi.a drivers/cdrom/cdrom.a drivers/sgi/sgi.a \ arch/mips/lib/lib.a /disk2/sgi/lib/lib.a arch/mips/sgi/kernel/sgikern.a arch/mips/sgi/prom/promlib.a arch/mips/lib/lib.a \ -o vmlinux kernel/kernel.o: In function `wake_up_process': sched.c(__ksymtab+0x80): undefined reference to `vmalloc' make: *** [vmlinux] Error 1 So you'll have to make vmalloc a real function again or you'll break the binary compatibility with modules. Ok, not very much an issue. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 13:27:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA83608 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:27:05 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA17946 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:22:24 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA17829 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:22:11 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA26265 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:22:07 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11069 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:50:40 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:50:40 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Linux on the O2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3182 Lines: 64 Hey, I've been looking for some information to start working on an O2 port and have basically gotten the response that managmement at SGI is not willing to release hardware specs for the O2 (a mistake IMHO). Don't get me wrong I think it's great that they allowed the Indy hardware specs to go out the door, even if in a limitied fashion. (I ran into the same problem with a Nintendo, but don't you agree that the 64 would make a great little "Network Computer"?) I'm guessing that they're looking at this as if an Indy running Linux won't really be that competetive with the O2s runnning IRIX, which I can almost understand. I can speak from my personal experience. I working with various research and production departments in a university that uses UNIX heavily. I can honestly say that we have several platforms (Alpha, Sparc, and Intel) that are running linux in production capacity. Also we have a lot of people using linux on there workstations (the above platforms plus a slew of others).. I think reallity is that people like Linux because they can get it to do usefull things on so many platrforms. Certain organizations within the school, who run anything from O2s to Octanes, to a Cave/Reallity Enginge, and an Origin 2000 (ok that probably gave away who I was talking about) are considering Linux on high-end Intel boxes as a inexpensive replacement for a $6000 dollar O2 running IRIX. I think this is partly due to the added cost of OS licenses and various other software packages they have to pay for. It would be ashamed if SGI lost a share of it's hardware sales (even if it is the only in workstation market) market becasue some freeware wasn't available to run on it. I realize that SGI has a vested interest in seeing IRIX succeed, and IRIX is probably (it hurts to say this) better than Linux when running 128 (or soon 4096) CPUs. Linux however, is great lightweight OS for workstations especially. There's even more value added to am SGI running Linux that can be introduced into an evironment where multiple high-preformance platform type are desired (ie, Sparcs, Ultras, Alphas, SGIs. HPs, etc.) but a single operating platform is needed. This makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know if I'm explaining everything in the most effecient manner. I'd be _extremely_ happy to discuss this with someone, especially people from SGI that have some sort of influence on getting us the specs we need. Right now I am basically in position (not officially supported by the university of course, but there not telling me not to do it either, if you know what I mean) where I've been given and Indy and an O2 to work on porting Linux while on the clock. I don't know how much better it gets, but I'm guessing not much... I won't have the hardware forever, unfortunately, but if I can start making some sort of progress I can possibly convince them of the need to let me keep it. I hope we can somehow figure out a way for SGI to help us out on this one. ;-) --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 14:14:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA01250 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:14:27 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA04174 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:10:30 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA04141 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:10:20 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA10594 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:10:18 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from grass (ralf@grass.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.65]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA02026; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:10:16 +0100 (MET) Received: by grass (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id XAA00792; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:10:10 +0100 Message-ID: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:10:09 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: cypher Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from cypher on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 04:50:40PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3273 Lines: 65 On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 04:50:40PM -0500, cypher wrote: > I've been looking for some information to start working on an O2 port and > have basically gotten the response that managmement at SGI is not willing > to release hardware specs for the O2 (a mistake IMHO). Don't get me wrong > I think it's great that they allowed the Indy hardware specs to go out the > door, even if in a limitied fashion. Yes, I think the way we will have to go is to demonstrate success of the Linux port to the Indy. If Linux on the Indy is a success then future projects will be alot easier. > (I ran into the same problem with a Nintendo, but don't you agree that the > 64 would make a great little "Network Computer"?) The 4mb RAM or so that the N64 has are almost rediculous in context of a real operating system ... > Certain organizations within the school, who run anything from O2s to > Octanes, to a Cave/Reallity Enginge, and an Origin 2000 (ok that > probably gave away who I was talking about) are considering Linux on > high-end Intel boxes as a inexpensive replacement for a $6000 dollar O2 > running IRIX. I think this is partly due to the added cost of OS licenses > and various other software packages they have to pay for. It would be > ashamed if SGI lost a share of it's hardware sales (even if it is > the only in workstation market) market becasue some freeware wasn't > available to run on it. The sad thing is many people see NT as the solution of this problem ... > I realize that SGI has a vested interest in seeing IRIX succeed, and IRIX > is probably (it hurts to say this) better than Linux when running 128 (or > soon 4096) CPUs. Linux however, is great lightweight OS for workstations > especially. There's even more value added to am SGI running Linux that can > be introduced into an evironment where multiple high-preformance platform > type are desired (ie, Sparcs, Ultras, Alphas, SGIs. HPs, etc.) but a > single operating platform is needed. Indeed, you're right and the ambiguousity of the aim IRIX has to solve is what makes the chance for Linux. > This makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know if I'm explaining > everything in the most effecient manner. I'd be _extremely_ happy to > discuss this with someone, especially people from SGI that have some sort > of influence on getting us the specs we need. Actually aside of the Linux developers like me there are also SGI engineers interested in Linux as well as some ties on this list, so posting here was a right thing to do. I can well imagine that way can be found under which an O2 port could become reality. It's probably most important that customers (== $$$) ask for Linux for their boxes and that word has to spread upto the higher managment. > Right now I am basically in position (not officially supported by the > university of course, but there not telling me not to do it either, if you > know what I mean) where I've been given and Indy and an O2 to work on > porting Linux while on the clock. I suggest to work on the Indy. There is Indy code that just needs a bit of polishing and debugging, but essentially we're relativly close. Working for the O2 would mean that you'll aside of a bigger technical task you'll also have to solve a political problem. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 14:35:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA05428 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:35:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA11536 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:31:35 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA11523; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:31:32 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA42384; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712022231.OAA42384@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:31:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> from "Ralf Baechle" at Dec 2, 97 11:10:09 pm Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1785 Lines: 41 Ralf wrote: : :On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 04:50:40PM -0500, cypher wrote: : :I can well imagine that way can be found under which an O2 port could become :reality. It's probably most important that customers (== $$$) ask for Linux :for their boxes and that word has to spread upto the higher managment. : :> Right now I am basically in position (not officially supported by the :> university of course, but there not telling me not to do it either, if you :> know what I mean) where I've been given and Indy and an O2 to work on :> porting Linux while on the clock. : :I suggest to work on the Indy. There is Indy code that just needs a bit of :polishing and debugging, but essentially we're relativly close. Working for :the O2 would mean that you'll aside of a bigger technical task you'll also :have to solve a political problem. : It is nice to see interest in Linux from big SGI customers (and I wish there was more of this :-) I'll second Ralf. Once we have an Indy port that's stable, easy to install and maybe supported by Red-Hat or other Linux distributors. Once we have something that's actually used by many Indy owners (rather than just a handful), and once SGI real customers (who bring SGI real money) seem to like it and talk to their SGI reps about their interest in Linux on SGI, only then, management may be open to opening more HW specs to the public. I believe there are a few hundreds of thousands Indy's out there. If we can make one in ten of them (10%) switch to Linux, it would be a great achievement and one that would certainly be noted by everyone at SGI, including those who can approve releasing further specs. And let's not waste too many resources on the N64 port either :-) As Mao Zedong used to say... hint, hint, nudge, nudge. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 14:35:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA05422 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:35:03 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA12222 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:33:54 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA12198; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:33:52 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA05434; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:33:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:33:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199712022233.OAA05434@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Ralf Baechle Cc: cypher , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2227 Lines: 40 Ralf Baechle writes: > On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 04:50:40PM -0500, cypher wrote: ... > Actually aside of the Linux developers like me there are also SGI engineers > interested in Linux as well as some ties on this list, so posting here was > a right thing to do. I am one of the SGI engineers, and I would like to be able to release the O2 specifications. Releasing the Indy specifications basically happened when we had started shipping O2, and the Indy was thus obsolete as a hardware product. I expect it would be easy to get approval when O2 is no longer shipping, but doing it now will take some persuasion. > I can well imagine that way can be found under which an O2 port could become > reality. It's probably most important that customers (== $$$) ask for Linux > for their boxes and that word has to spread upto the higher managment. This is precisely correct. If enough large customers ask for it, it will happen. The problem so far has been persuading management that very many people would consider SGI boxes with Linux. Part of the problem is that a simple Linux port leaves much of the special features of the SGI system unused, and really exploiting the graphics and digital media features is a major project, when SGI already has too many projects underway. > > Right now I am basically in position (not officially supported by the > > university of course, but there not telling me not to do it either, if you > > know what I mean) where I've been given and Indy and an O2 to work on > > porting Linux while on the clock. > > I suggest to work on the Indy. There is Indy code that just needs a bit of > polishing and debugging, but essentially we're relativly close. Working for > the O2 would mean that you'll aside of a bigger technical task you'll also > have to solve a political problem. O2 is also a bigger technical problem, even with specifications in hand. The drivers are actually easier than for Indy, but really exploiting the O2 capabilities in graphics and digital media required a lot of enhancements to the memory management, since O2 is a UMA system. You could do a dumb port, with a fixed frame buffer size, but then most of the O2 is wasted. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 15:36:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA12524 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:36:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA02690 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:32:58 -0800 Received: from nypd.engr.sgi.com (nypd.engr.sgi.com [130.62.13.93]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA02680 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:32:57 -0800 Received: from engr.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nypd.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA13267 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:32:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34849AA8.F21FFE4E@engr.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:32:56 -0800 From: Christian Reisch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5-ALPHA-1274191040 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <199712022233.OAA05434@fir.engr.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1030 Lines: 22 William J. Earl wrote: O2 is also a bigger technical problem, even with specifications in hand. > The drivers are actually easier than for Indy, but really exploiting the > O2 capabilities in graphics and digital media required a lot of enhancements > to the memory management, since O2 is a UMA system. You could do a dumb > port, with a fixed frame buffer size, but then most of the O2 is wasted. Actually I suspect the exact opposite would happen and hence management's fear. There are ALOT more people in the linux community than we have working at SGI. It is very concievable that if the specs were available linux on O2 would massively out perform irix on the O2. This would be a major embarrassment to the company. Compare and contrast as Unixes Solaris X86 and Linux on a given x86 box or Digital Unix and linux on an alpha. Quality wise free software always beats proprietary software (if for no other reason than it has to make fewer concesions to release schedules and politics) often embarassingly so. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 15:49:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA14016 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:49:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA06993 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:56 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA06851; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:39 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA05569; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:45:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199712022345.PAA05569@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Christian Reisch Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <34849AA8.F21FFE4E@engr.sgi.com> References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <199712022233.OAA05434@fir.engr.sgi.com> <34849AA8.F21FFE4E@engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2116 Lines: 41 Christian Reisch writes: > William J. Earl wrote: > O2 is also a bigger technical problem, even with specifications in > hand. > > The drivers are actually easier than for Indy, but really exploiting the > > O2 capabilities in graphics and digital media required a lot of enhancements > > to the memory management, since O2 is a UMA system. You could do a dumb > > port, with a fixed frame buffer size, but then most of the O2 is wasted. > > Actually I suspect the exact opposite would happen and hence > management's fear. There are ALOT more people in the linux community > than we have working at SGI. It is very concievable that if the specs > were > available linux on O2 would massively out perform irix on the O2. This > would > be a major embarrassment to the company. Compare and contrast as Unixes > Solaris X86 and Linux on a given x86 box or Digital Unix and linux on an > alpha. Many of us who want to see Linux on SGI systems expect that Linux will be substantially faster on a number of primitive functions, especially on uniprocessor systems. We think of this as a nice club to persuade people that low-level performance (a cache miss here and 100 instructions there) really matters. What I was talking about in regard to O2 was exploiting the hardware functionality, such as the ability to use 100 MB of memory for Photoshop, and then switch in seconds to using 100 MB of memory for texture mapping, including real-time texture mapping of live video. Some of this is fairly generic library work, but some of it requires fundamental changes to the operating system memory management (assuming you do not impose a fixed partitioning of memory). > Quality wise free software always beats proprietary software (if for > no other reason than it has to make fewer concesions to release > schedules > and politics) often embarassingly so. That is not always the case. It is the case for GNU and Linux software, due to the constraints imposed on the development and release process, which tend to keep untested changes out of the main tree. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 15:50:28 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA14075 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:50:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA08415 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:49:44 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA08389 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:49:39 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA12204 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:49:36 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-15.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.15]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05926 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:49:34 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18982; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:46:16 +0100 Message-ID: <19971203004616.08860@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:46:16 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Kernel in the CVS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 406 Lines: 10 Hi all, I've merged all my stuff into the CVS archive on Linus. With the commit I'm doing right now I verified that the kernel will compile for the Indy, Acer PICA and RM200. I was to lazy to build a Magnum kernel. The kernel is still true banana-ware, I did't yet boot it on any machine - 20 hours editing munging diffs was bad enough. More soon on this channel, don't change the station ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 16:09:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA15724 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:09:53 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA14556 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:04:49 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA14524; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:04:38 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA16546; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:03:13 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA09563; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:02:25 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xd2Iz-0005FsC; Wed, 3 Dec 97 00:04 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:04:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ralf@uni-koblenz.de, cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712022231.OAA42384@oz.engr.sgi.com> from "Ariel Faigon" at Dec 2, 97 02:31:26 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1093 Lines: 24 > I'll second Ralf. Once we have an Indy port that's stable, > easy to install and maybe supported by Red-Hat or other > Linux distributors. Once we have something that's actually used > by many Indy owners (rather than just a handful), and once SGI > real customers (who bring SGI real money) seem to like it and > talk to their SGI reps about their interest in Linux on SGI, > only then, management may be open to opening more HW specs > to the public. Even if they don't its far far easier to reverse engineer the O2 working from a stable Indy base than from a wobbly base platform. I don't personally believe there is anything SGI could do to stop a Linux hacker making Linux run on the O2 > As Mao Zedong used to say... hint, hint, nudge, nudge. Yep. I don't see a big problem. Im not privy to SGI accounts but I refuse to believe Irix itself does anything more than break even at best just by taking published information on developer team size, and sales. In fact I suspect its a loss maker like Solaris. If Linux sells SGI hardware Im sure it will get us into good books 8) Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 16:09:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA15712 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:09:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA15701 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:08:14 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA15692 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:08:12 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA18134 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:07:15 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA09622; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:07:09 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xd2Na-0005FtC; Wed, 3 Dec 97 00:09 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (cypher) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:09:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "cypher" at Dec 2, 97 04:50:40 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 961 Lines: 21 > I'm guessing that they're looking at this as if an Indy running Linux > won't really be that competetive with the O2s runnning IRIX, which I can > almost understand. Ah conspiracy theories abound. It could just be they didnt want anyone cloning their hardware > I realize that SGI has a vested interest in seeing IRIX succeed, and IRIX > is probably (it hurts to say this) better than Linux when running 128 (or > soon 4096) CPUs. Linux however, is great lightweight OS for workstations Right now Linux scales to about 2-3 CPU's for generic stuff in 2.1.x maybe 4 if the hardware is sane (eg Ultrasparc). To go to 128-4096 CPU's really involves changing the fundamental rules and building a sort of very tightly interlinked multicomputer - AP1000+ on steroids as it were. There is some interest in this from various people, notably in sticking 9 or 10 EBSA285 Digital strongarm boards in a PCI backplane and using PCI bus as the backbone network. Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 16:48:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA01529 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:48:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA28881 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:46:15 -0800 Received: from blammo.engr.sgi.com (blammo.engr.sgi.com [130.62.15.51]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA28875 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:46:13 -0800 Received: (from jwiede@localhost) by blammo.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA11614 for linux@cthulhu; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:46:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:46:12 -0800 From: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) Message-Id: <9712021646.ZM11626@blammo.engr.sgi.com> In-Reply-To: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 3, 12:04am) References: X-Face: 'rEN+vrv,h:"?|h{Q,A@Is5T#VUFb=Kp>c]5sK@![sLA$9^UoAtgryPHsqEOv5p&09H\E:p )h:LCq-vz/dWH?Kn#A334hP4mM/**@..@TF($8<2LyeDSJqsnEnZ~O{>`EWm]QQ\>aSm9j,J_t0NF` Rt`td=N-r1R~c2}l+Q^q[bYP0d_bzVWox>.pWNi$75*m,BlJ4-X"Q`x`OUCkz/gg>pIUf|KWs6{r=J zE7[.14o:oq9Du"#C`^(MM_`?#!k:5%P4:Pfpy)5X7@fE|gq0XV(s/jUG?[>#ldY_4tG(Ng$:DRC X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3109 Lines: 63 On Dec 3, 12:04am, Alan Cox wrote: > > > I'll second Ralf. Once we have an Indy port that's stable, > > easy to install and maybe supported by Red-Hat or other > > Linux distributors. Once we have something that's actually used > > by many Indy owners (rather than just a handful), and once SGI > > real customers (who bring SGI real money) seem to like it and > > talk to their SGI reps about their interest in Linux on SGI, > > only then, management may be open to opening more HW specs > > to the public. > > Even if they don't its far far easier to reverse engineer the O2 working > from a stable Indy base than from a wobbly base platform. I don't personally > believe there is anything SGI could do to stop a Linux hacker making Linux > run on the O2 As I've commented before, the problem isn't so much in getting the kernel working (and working quickly). The problem comes the second you need to deal with graphics. Given the O2's onboard multimedia hardware, the situation only gets more complex. Right now, there is no effective hardware abstraction mechanism in Linux for graphics/multimedia. With the Indy's rather simple gfx capabilities, that isn't a tremendous hardship. The hardship comes when you are managing things like graphics pipelines, or hardware that has very specific requirements for memory allocation and alignment (and access). Many of the necessary pieces simply do not currently exist in the Linux kernel services. While it would be possible to move these needs out to the X server to some extent, not all of them can be handled that way (in specific, the memory issues). Further, there isn't really anything like uniform functionality in Linux X servers for handling things such as video I/O, genlocking, etc. They exist in 3rd party servers, but then the cooperation requirement rises again. The proposal has come up multiple times to use the IRIX X server on top of a Linux kernel. Unfortunately, once again, that gets very problemmatic on the more advanced gfx platforms such as O2 and Octane. They both contain hardware-dependant sections of code which RELY on certain kernel functionalities being present. Factor in OpenGL and the whole complexity level rises again. Now, having said all that, I do believe the problem is solvable. I think that with some modifications of the Linux kernel, it would be quite possible to get the necessary abstraction to support either an IRIX or customized third-party X server. Further, it would be nice if something equivalent to the SGI DMedia libraries were available on Linux (with similar hardware abstraction), since this is an area where simply put, Linux is FAR behind Windows{95,NT} and SGI (and others). Getting Linux on O2 probably isn't too difficult. Getting USEFUL O2/Octane/Onyx2 2D/3D graphics and multimedia under Linux would be god-awful difficult with the current kernel/X situation. My $0.02. -- John Wiederhirn (DSD, Graphics Kernel MTS) jwiede@engr.sgi.com "I've always said there's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 17:14:12 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA03593 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:14:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA07501 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:12:44 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA07496 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:12:43 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA06885 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:12:41 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-14.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.14]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16490 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:12:36 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA19726; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:09:17 +0100 Message-ID: <19971203020917.44559@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:09:17 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: More bananaware ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 218 Lines: 5 I tested the kernel on the Indy. Compared to the older ones I was trying the networking driver is more reliable (read: it doesn't crash the box) but I still see tons of timeouts. So far seems to be reliable. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 18:03:19 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA19996 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:03:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA20094 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:00:11 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA19969; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:00:05 -0800 Received: from home.axess.net (usr-47.syr.axess.net [205.247.138.247]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA18171; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:00:02 -0800 env-from (delznic@acm.org) Received: from win95.axess.net ([192.168.4.69]) by home.axess.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01269; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:59:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> X-Sender: delznic@192.168.4.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:51:46 -0500 To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon), ralf@uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) From: "Douglas F. Elznic" Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712022231.OAA42384@oz.engr.sgi.com> References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 367 Lines: 13 At 02:31 PM 12/2/97 -0800, Ariel Faigon wrote: >Ralf wrote: >And let's not waste too many resources on the N64 port either :-) You must admit that the n64 would make a neat toy project. -- Douglas F. Elznic Email: delznic@acm.org Pager: 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 18:43:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA26414 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:43:25 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA00748 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:40:40 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA00711 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:40:26 -0800 Received: from MajorD.xtra.co.nz (terminator.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.5]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA27117 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:40:23 -0800 env-from (ratfink@xtra.co.nz) Received: from xtra.co.nz (xtra185187.xtra.co.nz [202.27.185.187]) by MajorD.xtra.co.nz (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA20133 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:40:22 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <3484C528.4DDB2A53@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:34:16 +1300 From: Brendan Black Organization: Acess Denied... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> <9712031305.ZM9442@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 818 Lines: 18 David Chatterton wrote: > > Maybe then my wife would let me buy one: "Yes dear, I'm doing real work" :) I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the N64) - but one thing crops up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... -- Brendan Black - Network Engineer, Telecom Internet Services email: ratfink@xtra.co.nz (personal) phone: +649 3555238 mob: +6425 2752667 The word "spine" is, of course, an anagram of "penis". This is true in almost fifty percent of the languages of the Galaxy, and many people have attempted to explain why. Usually these explanations get bogged down in silly puns about "standing erect". -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 19:07:45 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA30527 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:07:45 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA05887 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:03:21 -0800 Received: from morgaine.engr.sgi.com (morgaine.engr.sgi.com [130.62.16.64]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA05879 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:03:19 -0800 Received: (from offer@localhost) by morgaine.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA21266; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:58:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:58:25 -0800 (PST) From: offer@morgaine.engr.sgi.com (Richard Offer) Message-Id: <9712021858.ZM21414@sgi.com> In-Reply-To: Brendan Black "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 3, 3:34pm) References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> <9712031305.ZM9442@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> <3484C528.4DDB2A53@xtra.co.nz> X-Signature: Automatically generated by Richards Own Mail Signer (roms) X-Home-Page: http://reality.sgi.com/offer X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Brendan Black Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1260 Lines: 40 * $ from ratfink@xtra.co.nz at "3-Dec: 3:34pm" | sed "1,$s/^/* /" * * * David Chatterton wrote: * > * > Maybe then my wife would let me buy one: "Yes dear, I'm doing real work" :) * * I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the * N64) - but one thing crops * up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. * * I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... It was a fairly obvious April Fool joke. * -- * Brendan Black - Network Engineer, Telecom Internet Services * email: ratfink@xtra.co.nz (personal) phone: +649 3555238 * mob: +6425 2752667 * The word "spine" is, of course, an anagram of "penis". This is true in * almost fifty percent of the languages of the Galaxy, and many people * have attempted to explain why. Usually these explanations get bogged * down in silly puns about "standing erect". * -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" Never seen or heard that bit before. * richard. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard M. Offer Widget FAQ --> http://reality.sgi.com/widgetFAQ MTS-Core Design (Motif) ___________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 19:07:48 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA30505 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:07:47 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA06445 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:06:35 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA06437 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:06:34 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA05948; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:06:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:06:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199712030306.TAA05948@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: jwiede@blammo.engr.sgi.com (John Wiederhirn) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <9712021646.ZM11626@blammo.engr.sgi.com> References: <9712021646.ZM11626@blammo.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1250 Lines: 24 John Wiederhirn writes: ... > Now, having said all that, I do believe the problem is solvable. > I think that with some modifications of the Linux kernel, it would > be quite possible to get the necessary abstraction to support > either an IRIX or customized third-party X server. Further, it > would be nice if something equivalent to the SGI DMedia libraries > were available on Linux (with similar hardware abstraction), since > this is an area where simply put, Linux is FAR behind Windows{95,NT} > and SGI (and others). > > Getting Linux on O2 probably isn't too difficult. Getting USEFUL > O2/Octane/Onyx2 2D/3D graphics and multimedia under Linux would > be god-awful difficult with the current kernel/X situation. ... Having implemented a good bit of the system-specific code for Indy and O2, I agree entirely. Without the above features, O2 is just another, not especially distinguished, general purpose workstation, except for having fairly fast I/O for its price. The most interesting thing about O2 is what you can do with graphics and multimedia, which is otherwise possible only with far more expensive hardware. In different problem domains, something similar can be said of Octane and the various SGI servers. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 19:29:14 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA32532 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:29:14 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA09814 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:23:52 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA09803 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:23:47 -0800 Received: from home.axess.net (usr-47.syr.axess.net [205.247.138.247]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA06261 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:23:37 -0800 env-from (delznic@acm.org) Received: from win95.axess.net ([192.168.4.69]) by home.axess.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA03679; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:23:09 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971202221957.006d77d8@192.168.4.20> X-Sender: delznic@192.168.4.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:19:57 -0500 To: Brendan Black , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com From: "Douglas F. Elznic" Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3484C528.4DDB2A53@xtra.co.nz> References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> <9712031305.ZM9442@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 716 Lines: 22 At 03:34 PM 12/3/97 +1300, Brendan Black wrote: >David Chatterton wrote: >> >> Maybe then my wife would let me buy one: "Yes dear, I'm doing real work" :) > >I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the >N64) - but one thing crops >up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. > >I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... I found the article but nothing about any progress. I am looking for some code samples or anything else on the project. http://www.ix.de/ix/artikel/E/1997/04/036 -- Douglas F. Elznic Email: delznic@acm.org Pager: 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 23:55:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA54333 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:55:25 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA18556 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:20 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA18550; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:18 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id XAA22781; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:16 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-22.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02483; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:51:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21278; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:01:20 +0100 Message-ID: <19971203080120.00522@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:01:20 +0100 To: "Douglas F. Elznic" Cc: Ariel Faigon , cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <199712022231.OAA42384@oz.engr.sgi.com> <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20>; from Douglas F. Elznic on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 08:51:46PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 371 Lines: 11 On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 08:51:46PM -0500, Douglas F. Elznic wrote: > At 02:31 PM 12/2/97 -0800, Ariel Faigon wrote: > >Ralf wrote: > >And let's not waste too many resources on the N64 port either :-) > You must admit that the n64 would make a neat toy project. Maybe - but I personally would cut my fingers off for other things like doing the R10k port or SMP. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 22:45:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA48711 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:45:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA10858 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:42:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA10843 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:42:43 -0800 Received: from ha1.rdc1.occa.home.com (ha1.rdc1.occa.home.com [24.1.128.66]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA12105 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:42:40 -0800 env-from (cwcarlson@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.1.132.40]) by ha1.rdc1.occa.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA3318 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:42:38 -0800 Message-ID: <34850E4A.1075E816@home.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:46:20 -0800 From: Chris Carlson Organization: BeachWare X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4420 Lines: 86 cypher wrote: > Hey, > > I've been looking for some information to start working on an O2 port and > have basically gotten the response that managmement at SGI is not willing > to release hardware specs for the O2 (a mistake IMHO). Don't get me wrong > I think it's great that they allowed the Indy hardware specs to go out the > door, even if in a limitied fashion. > > (I ran into the same problem with a Nintendo, but don't you agree that the > 64 would make a great little "Network Computer"?) > > I'm guessing that they're looking at this as if an Indy running Linux > won't really be that competetive with the O2s runnning IRIX, which I can > almost understand. > > I can speak from my personal experience. I working with various research > and production departments in a university that uses UNIX heavily. I can > honestly say that we have several platforms (Alpha, Sparc, and Intel) that > are running linux in production capacity. Also we have a lot of people > using linux on there workstations (the above platforms plus a slew of > others).. I think reallity is that people like Linux because they can get > it to do usefull things on so many platrforms. > > Certain organizations within the school, who run anything from O2s to > Octanes, to a Cave/Reallity Enginge, and an Origin 2000 (ok that > probably gave away who I was talking about) are considering Linux on > high-end Intel boxes as a inexpensive replacement for a $6000 dollar O2 > running IRIX. I think this is partly due to the added cost of OS licenses > and various other software packages they have to pay for. It would be > ashamed if SGI lost a share of it's hardware sales (even if it is > the only in workstation market) market becasue some freeware wasn't > available to run on it. > > I realize that SGI has a vested interest in seeing IRIX succeed, and IRIX > is probably (it hurts to say this) better than Linux when running 128 (or > soon 4096) CPUs. Linux however, is great lightweight OS for workstations > especially. There's even more value added to am SGI running Linux that can > be introduced into an evironment where multiple high-preformance platform > type are desired (ie, Sparcs, Ultras, Alphas, SGIs. HPs, etc.) but a > single operating platform is needed. > > This makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know if I'm explaining > everything in the most effecient manner. I'd be _extremely_ happy to > discuss this with someone, especially people from SGI that have some sort > of influence on getting us the specs we need. > > Right now I am basically in position (not officially supported by the > university of course, but there not telling me not to do it either, if you > know what I mean) where I've been given and Indy and an O2 to work on > porting Linux while on the clock. I don't know how much better it gets, > but I'm guessing not much... I won't have the hardware forever, > unfortunately, but if I can start making some sort of progress I can > possibly convince them of the need to let me keep it. > > I hope we can somehow figure out a way for SGI to help us out on this one. > ;-) > I also would like to see Linux ported to the O2 but also don't expect it to happen in the near future. We have to remember that SGI is a "hardware company" and did not get where it is because of software. To ask them to divulge the inner workings of their bread-and-butter product, thus allowing competitors to reproduce and improve upon the design is asking for disaster. SGI does not fabricate their own chips and they have done their best to provide access to their source (as long as it doesn't compromise their hardware investment). The only thing they have to sell is their design. Since MIPS is not faring very well against competitors and there seems to me a bit of doubt that they can stay ahead, what else does SGI have to sell? Just their internal architecture and IRIX. Giving the Linux community access to the internal design of the O2, Octane and/or Origin would give any competitor the information they need to put SGI out of business. I don't blame the company for not wanting Linux on the newer products until the next generation is released. -- +----------------------------------------+ | Christopher W. Carlson | | e-mail home: cwcarlson@home.com | | WWW: http://members.home.net/cwcarlson | +----------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 01:25:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id BAA61691 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:25:20 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA03411 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:21:30 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA03392 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:21:15 -0800 Received: from aec.at (web.aec.at [193.170.192.5]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA07453 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:21:10 -0800 env-from (oliver@web.aec.at) Received: from localhost (oliver@localhost) by aec.at (8.8.3/8.7) with SMTP id JAA05486; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:21:52 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:21:52 +0100 (MET) From: Oliver Frommel To: "Douglas F. Elznic" cc: Brendan Black , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971202221957.006d77d8@192.168.4.20> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 632 Lines: 16 > >I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the > >N64) - but one thing crops > >up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. > > > >I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... > I found the article but nothing about any progress. I am looking for some > code samples or anything else on the project. > http://www.ix.de/ix/artikel/E/1997/04/036 > sorry to disappoint you, but this was an April's joke (even confirmed in the next issue of iX). IMHO the most advanced projects on N64 in terms of hacking it without docs are some demos (you might take a look at www.dextrose.com) o. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 02:53:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id CAA69462 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:53:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA14378 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:48:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA14373 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:48:39 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id CAA20789 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:48:38 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-10.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.10]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12493 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:48:36 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22356; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:23 +0100 Message-ID: <19971203104923.65197@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:23 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: wd33c93 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 485 Lines: 11 Hi, question: has SGI every shipped machines based on the prototype version of the wd33c93 (recogniceable by the version "00-04" and the word "proto" on the chip)? This particular chip version is pretty buggy; especially disconnect/reconnect is broken; it has shipped in large quantities on non-SGI systems, for example various Amiga hostadapters. If SGI every shipped system based on that chip then I'd think it'd be a good idea to disable disconnect/reconnect by default. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 02:53:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id CAA69193 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:53:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA14574 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:50:09 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA14564 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:50:08 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id CAA20849 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:49:07 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA22753; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:48:56 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdCOt-0005FsC; Wed, 3 Dec 97 10:51 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: ratfink@xtra.co.nz (Brendan Black) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:51:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <3484C528.4DDB2A53@xtra.co.nz> from "Brendan Black" at Dec 3, 97 03:34:16 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 248 Lines: 8 > I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the > N64) - but one thing crops > up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. > > I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... April issue I believe ... From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 03:47:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id DAA73073 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:47:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA19348 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:42:44 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA19338 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:42:38 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA29587 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:42:37 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15922 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:42:35 +0100 (MET) Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id MAA17997; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:42:33 +0100 Message-ID: <19971203124232.10294@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:42:32 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: libc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 828 Lines: 20 Hi all, it turned out that the libc bugs I was still observing were produced due to the libc install process failing in a subtile way. So the sources are ok. Now that this problem is gone the RPM factory has been restarted. Be careful: I still observe occasional disk corruption. Fsck is your friend :-( I suspect the console driver is the cause as it also has some other misterious "properties". For some reason the system's performance is extremly bad. Crosscompiling libc on IRIX takes about 90 minutes using a R4600/133Mhz. Using a R5000 under Linux takes more than four times as much. Again I suspect the console driver as the cause. Since the load address for the program interpreter is no longer fixed in the kernel also directly calling ld.so like during the libc build or in ldd fails. Easy to fix. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:06:48 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA106120 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:06:47 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA28757 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:05:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA28714; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:05:36 -0800 Received: from home.axess.net (usr-14.syr.axess.net [205.247.138.214]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA29720; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:05:27 -0800 env-from (delznic@acm.org) Received: from win95.axess.net ([192.168.4.69]) by home.axess.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01695; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:04:47 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971203130453.006e8f68@192.168.4.20> X-Sender: delznic@192.168.4.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:04:53 -0500 To: cypher From: "Douglas F. Elznic" Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: Ariel Faigon , Ralf Baechle , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 581 Lines: 21 At 01:31 PM 12/3/97 -0500, cypher wrote: > >Speaking of the N64, > >There now exists an emulator for it. Now if one were to port the kernel to >the emulator and then burn that to a rom.... hmmm > >I guess you would at least want the 8mb memory upgrade, but 4mb would be a >nice enough for an embeded linux. > What are the specs on Sun's javastation? They can not be a whole lot greater that the N64. -- Douglas F. Elznic Email: delznic@acm.org Pager: 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 2 18:06:26 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA20381 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:06:26 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA22023 for linux-list; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:05:50 -0800 Received: from larry.melbourne.sgi.com (larry.melbourne.sgi.com [134.14.52.130]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA22013 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:05:47 -0800 Received: from omen.melbourne.sgi.com (omen.melbourne.sgi.com [134.14.55.139]) by larry.melbourne.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA29095; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:05:44 +1100 Received: (from chatz@localhost) by omen.melbourne.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA09444; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:05:36 +1100 From: "David Chatterton" Message-Id: <9712031305.ZM9442@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:05:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Douglas F. Elznic" "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 2, 8:51pm) References: <19971202231009.32146@grass.uni-koblenz.de> <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "Douglas F. Elznic" Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 619 Lines: 17 On Dec 2, 8:51pm, Douglas F. Elznic wrote: | Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 | At 02:31 PM 12/2/97 -0800, Ariel Faigon wrote: | >Ralf wrote: | >And let's not waste too many resources on the N64 port either :-) | You must admit that the n64 would make a neat toy project. | Maybe then my wife would let me buy one: "Yes dear, I'm doing real work" :) David -- David Chatterton (61-3) 9882 8211 (Tel) R&D Software Engineer (61-3) 9882 8030 (Fax) Performance Tools Group http://reality.sgi.com/chatz Silicon Graphics Pty.Ltd., 357 Camberwell Rd, Melbourne, Australia From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:06:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA106000 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:06:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA26437 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:00:27 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA26320; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:00:14 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA27542; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:00:02 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15179; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:28:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:28:33 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: John Wiederhirn cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <9712021646.ZM11626@blammo.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3176 Lines: 65 On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, John Wiederhirn wrote: > As I've commented before, the problem isn't so much in getting the > kernel working (and working quickly). The problem comes the second > you need to deal with graphics. Given the O2's onboard multimedia > hardware, the situation only gets more complex. > > Right now, there is no effective hardware abstraction mechanism in > Linux for graphics/multimedia. With the Indy's rather simple gfx > capabilities, that isn't a tremendous hardship. The hardship comes > when you are managing things like graphics pipelines, or hardware > that has very specific requirements for memory allocation and > alignment (and access). Many of the necessary pieces simply do not > currently exist in the Linux kernel services. I would definately agree here, but don't get me wrong. I'm not looking for a quick solution. I think part of what makes Linux so great is that when it does get ported to a new platform, the kernel learns something new. What I mean is that by porting to the 02 and allowing Linux to develope a good "hardware abstraction mechanism" or better memory management or the various other internals that allow it to run well on an 02 would also give Linux as UNIX an advantage over the other UNIXes that only run on one or two platforms. Don't mistake what I say to mean that ever change we make the kernel for the O2 will improve Linux on every other platform, but now and then something will improve other code, just like some code used for other platforms will help improve the Linux on the various SGI platforms. > While it would be possible to move these needs out to the X server > to some extent, not all of them can be handled that way (in specific, > the memory issues). Further, there isn't really anything like > uniform functionality in Linux X servers for handling things such > as video I/O, genlocking, etc. They exist in 3rd party servers, > but then the cooperation requirement rises again. If there is one thing I have learned it is never to say never or isn't or can't when talking to a group of Linux hackers... > Now, having said all that, I do believe the problem is solvable. > I think that with some modifications of the Linux kernel, it would > be quite possible to get the necessary abstraction to support > either an IRIX or customized third-party X server. Further, it > would be nice if something equivalent to the SGI DMedia libraries > were available on Linux (with similar hardware abstraction), since > this is an area where simply put, Linux is FAR behind Windows{95,NT} > and SGI (and others). I'm glad you think it is... > Getting Linux on O2 probably isn't too difficult. Getting USEFUL > O2/Octane/Onyx2 2D/3D graphics and multimedia under Linux would > be god-awful difficult with the current kernel/X situation. But not impossible ;-) --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 --- find my pgp public key at http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tshrider From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:06:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA106093 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:06:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA27463 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:02:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA27442; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:02:39 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA28787; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:02:37 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15192; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:31:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:31:09 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: "Douglas F. Elznic" cc: Ariel Faigon , Ralf Baechle , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971202205146.006bfe54@192.168.4.20> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 894 Lines: 32 Speaking of the N64, There now exists an emulator for it. Now if one were to port the kernel to the emulator and then burn that to a rom.... hmmm I guess you would at least want the 8mb memory upgrade, but 4mb would be a nice enough for an embeded linux. --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Douglas F. Elznic wrote: > At 02:31 PM 12/2/97 -0800, Ariel Faigon wrote: > >Ralf wrote: > >And let's not waste too many resources on the N64 port either :-) > You must admit that the n64 would make a neat toy project. > > -- > Douglas F. Elznic > Email: > delznic@acm.org > Pager: > 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net > "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of > patriots and tyrants." > From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:06:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA106018 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:06:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA28143 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:04:23 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA28084 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:04:15 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA29341 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:04:12 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15201; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:32:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: Brendan Black cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3484C528.4DDB2A53@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 661 Lines: 18 On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Brendan Black wrote: > I can imagine all sorts of 'uses' for something like this (linux on the > N64) - but one thing crops > up, I thought there WAS an N64 port. > > I seem to remember something, may have been an article on IX magazine... I think if you take another look at that magazine you will notice that it was published on April, 1st. I've read the same article... --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:42:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA109294 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:42:13 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA10636 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:39:04 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA10628; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:39:02 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA10790; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:37:37 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA00497; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:36:53 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdJhv-0005FsC; Wed, 3 Dec 97 18:39 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: delznic@acm.org (Douglas F. Elznic) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:39:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu, ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971203130453.006e8f68@192.168.4.20> from "Douglas F. Elznic" at Dec 3, 97 01:04:53 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 230 Lines: 6 > What are the specs on Sun's javastation? They can not be a whole lot > greater that the N64. The existing one is a Sun4 box with funny keyboard and other oddments. DaveM has one if someone knows how to create time by magic ;) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:18:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA102241 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:18:05 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA02214 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:50 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA02167; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:40 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA03090; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:36 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15273; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:42:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:42:09 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: "Douglas F. Elznic" cc: Ariel Faigon , Ralf Baechle , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971203130453.006e8f68@192.168.4.20> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1103 Lines: 38 Now your thinking... ;-) I have a friend who is doing a trace of N64 as we speak... Nintendo won't even consider talking to use, let alone supporting this, so were doing it on our own. As soon as I have info I'll make it available... --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Douglas F. Elznic wrote: > At 01:31 PM 12/3/97 -0500, cypher wrote: > > > >Speaking of the N64, > > > >There now exists an emulator for it. Now if one were to port the kernel to > >the emulator and then burn that to a rom.... hmmm > > > >I guess you would at least want the 8mb memory upgrade, but 4mb would be a > >nice enough for an embeded linux. > > > What are the specs on Sun's javastation? They can not be a whole lot > greater that the N64. > > -- > Douglas F. Elznic > Email: > delznic@acm.org > Pager: > 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net > "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of > patriots and tyrants." > From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 10:22:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA107740 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:22:13 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA04986 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:21:33 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA04969 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:21:30 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA05252 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:21:00 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15301 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:49:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:49:39 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971203130453.006e8f68@192.168.4.20> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 697 Lines: 20 I'm really glad I got such a great response to my message. Everyone's input is greatly appreciated. I'll try and summarize everyones point in another mail as soon as I get a chance hoping that the "Big Brother" at SGI is listening... Until then, here I come Indy... (Although wouldn't it be nice to be able to have IU ask for Linux the next time they decide to add more nodes to there Cray Origin 2000. I mean, we could always just use that Intel Paragon we have sitting in the cornere) ;-) --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 13:25:02 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA130362 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:25:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA02984 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:20:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA02936 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:20:35 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id NAA01831 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:20:29 -0800 env-from (imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xdMDQ-0004hs-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:20:16 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA14390; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:19:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712032119.OAA14390@harmony.village.org> To: cypher Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:31:09 EST." References: Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:19:57 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 784 Lines: 18 In message cypher writes: : There now exists an emulator for it. Now if one were to port the kernel to : the emulator and then burn that to a rom.... hmmm Hmmm. Interesting. How much does it cost to burn a EEPROM for the N64? I suspect the anser is $500 for the first one, and EEPROM cost + $0.01 for each additional one due to startup costs. Also, do you have a URL for the N64 emulator? If memory serves, the N64 has a VR4700 chip in it made by IDT or some such. I have an IDT eval board that has a R4700 on it right now, which would be enough to get Linux running on the chip. But one does have to ask the question of WHY? What can you get from an N64 that would make it worth running Linux on it? Warner From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 14:25:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA146634 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:25:53 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA24358 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:22:47 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA24324 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:22:41 -0800 Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA18895 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:16:17 -0800 env-from (campbell@ukans.edu) Received: from dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id QAA0000011879; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:15:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:16:21 -0600 (CST) From: Chad Campbell X-Sender: campbell@dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us To: Warner Losh cc: cypher , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <199712032119.OAA14390@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 726 Lines: 16 On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > But one does have to ask the question of WHY? What can you get from > an N64 that would make it worth running Linux on it? I don't know much about the N64, but it should have at least two game controller ports for a keyboard and a mouse, and I think I heard that there were storage devices available for it. With an upgrade to 8 MB, it sounds like it could possibly be made into a cheap NC or WebTV type of product. Of course, as others have mentioned, any kernel port is valuable at least in the sense that we might learn something new which could aid in the design of kernels for other architectures. Chad Chad Campbell Web Manager, University of Kansas Natural History Museum From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 14:32:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA148097 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:32:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA26860 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:31:36 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA26849 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:31:34 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA24793; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:31:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:31:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199712032231.OAA24793@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: References: <199712032119.OAA14390@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1233 Lines: 20 Chad Campbell writes: > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > > But one does have to ask the question of WHY? What can you get from > > an N64 that would make it worth running Linux on it? > I don't know much about the N64, but it should have at least two game > controller ports for a keyboard and a mouse, and I think I heard that > there were storage devices available for it. With an upgrade to 8 MB, it > sounds like it could possibly be made into a cheap NC or WebTV type of > product. Of course, as others have mentioned, any kernel port is valuable > at least in the sense that we might learn something new which could aid in > the design of kernels for other architectures. I have heard of several companies using Linux as a sort of embedded OS, as would be the case when using it on N64 to build an NC or WebTV device. One interesting area for development, both in the embedded space, and on the SGI workstations, would be in regard to realtime support, which is needed for digital media. By realtime, I mean not fast interrupt response, but rather precisely scheduled repetitive events (such as driving the Indy audio ports every 1 ms. with at most 0.9 ms delay no matter what else is going on). From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 14:42:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA149208 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:42:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA29280 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:39:40 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA29267 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:39:38 -0800 Received: from home.axess.net (usr-14.syr.axess.net [205.247.138.214]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA25680 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:39:35 -0800 env-from (delznic@acm.org) Received: from win95.axess.net ([192.168.4.69]) by home.axess.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08811; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:38:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971203173854.006e3d64@192.168.4.20> X-Sender: delznic@192.168.4.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:38:54 -0500 To: Chad Campbell , Warner Losh From: "Douglas F. Elznic" Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: cypher , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: References: <199712032119.OAA14390@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 912 Lines: 23 At 04:16 PM 12/3/97 -0600, Chad Campbell wrote: >On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Warner Losh wrote: >> But one does have to ask the question of WHY? What can you get from >> an N64 that would make it worth running Linux on it? >I don't know much about the N64, but it should have at least two game >controller ports for a keyboard and a mouse, and I think I heard that >there were storage devices available for it. With an upgrade to 8 MB, it >sounds like it could possibly be made into a cheap NC or WebTV type of >product. Of course, as others have mentioned, any kernel port is valuable >at least in the sense that we might learn something new which could aid in >the design of kernels for other architectures. > > Namely the MIPS arch. -- Douglas F. Elznic Email: delznic@acm.org Pager: 3154492502.2423685@pagenet.net "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 14:48:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA148752 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:48:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA02274 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:47:26 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA02266; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:47:25 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA27317; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:46:00 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA05108; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:45:56 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdNb1-0005FsC; Wed, 3 Dec 97 22:48 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:48:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712032231.OAA24793@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Dec 3, 97 02:31:33 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 583 Lines: 12 > One interesting area for development, both in the embedded space, and on > the SGI workstations, would be in regard to realtime support, which is > needed for digital media. By realtime, I mean not fast interrupt response, > but rather precisely scheduled repetitive events (such as driving the Indy > audio ports every 1 ms. with at most 0.9 ms delay no matter what else is > going on). This exists although not for the MIPS platform and not directly accessible from user space. NMT have a RTLinux kernel that allows real time drivers to hit targets well well under 0.1ms. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 17:14:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA172739 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:14:07 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA16788 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:11:56 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA16767 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:11:51 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA12392 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:11:49 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-25.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.25]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08018 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:11:47 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25422; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:08:21 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204020821.09818@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:08:21 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Update ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 322 Lines: 7 Turns out that the extremly weak performance I was seeing was caused by my init going nuts. I really should compile ps ... The console performance is now better but still not good; otherwise the machine behaves performancewise about as it is supposed to do. Rpm factory going to warp speed & just rebuilding X. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 18:43:11 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA183555 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:43:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA12116 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:39:01 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA12012 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:38:54 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA04049 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:38:50 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07356; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:36:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:36:12 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... In-Reply-To: <19971204020821.09818@uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1008 Lines: 23 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > Turns out that the extremly weak performance I was seeing was caused > by my init going nuts. I really should compile ps ... The console > performance is now better but still not good; otherwise the machine > behaves performancewise about as it is supposed to do. Rpm factory > going to warp speed & just rebuilding X. I know I'm being a pain in the ass, but... I'm really, really stuck. I'd love to help build packages, but I can't because my libc is old and out of date. Great, I thought, I'll just cross compile my libc. Except I'm back to where I was in August. I can't for the life of me cross compile anything, especially the kernel. I know I'm not using the correct gcc. I don't know where the correct patches are. And I'm frustrated. And I know that libc is the only thing I'm missing. Can someone _please_ break my cycle by uploading their functional libc? Please? If I get it, and can become a productive member of society again. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 19:13:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA186140 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:13:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA19274 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:09:24 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA19255 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:09:15 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA11205 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:09:13 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-29.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.29]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10932 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:09:11 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA25976; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:05:35 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204040535.06128@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:05:35 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... References: <19971204020821.09818@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 09:36:12PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 783 Lines: 19 On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 09:36:12PM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > I'm really, really stuck. I'd love to help build packages, but I can't > because my libc is old and out of date. > > Great, I thought, I'll just cross compile my libc. Except I'm back to > where I was in August. I can't for the life of me cross compile anything, > especially the kernel. I know I'm not using the correct gcc. I don't know > where the correct patches are. And I'm frustrated. And I know that libc is > the only thing I'm missing. Ok ... I'm brewing crosscompiler rpms ... > Can someone _please_ break my cycle by uploading their functional libc? > Please? If I get it, and can become a productive member of society again. Hold your breath ;-) Ralf (Whipping his Indy to compile faster ...) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 19:42:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA187654 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:42:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA24461 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:40:24 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA24451 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:40:18 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA17596 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:40:16 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10854; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:37:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:37:47 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... In-Reply-To: <19971204040535.06128@uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 711 Lines: 21 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > > Ok ... I'm brewing crosscompiler rpms ... Oh, thank you, thank you. Where should I have my first born sent to? > > Can someone _please_ break my cycle by uploading their functional libc? > > Please? If I get it, and can become a productive member of society again. > Ralf (Whipping his Indy to compile faster ...) Incidentally, is it the SRPM's from RH 5.0 that you're building? When my libc is going, I can run my 4600 on some RPMs as well. I'm going to work on some of the important things in the contrib directory, including PGP and SSH. If people want me to RPMify some tarballs for the X server or anything special, I'd be happy to... - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 04:41:59 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA225786 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:41:58 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA02660 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:31 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA02654 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:30 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA24492 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:28 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-19.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.19]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04738 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA26405; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:27:18 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204052718.34555@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:27:18 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... References: <19971204040535.06128@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 10:37:47PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 751 Lines: 20 On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 10:37:47PM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > > Ok ... I'm brewing crosscompiler rpms ... > > Oh, thank you, thank you. Where should I have my first born sent to? > Incidentally, is it the SRPM's from RH 5.0 that you're building? When my > libc is going, I can run my 4600 on some RPMs as well. I'm going to work > on some of the important things in the contrib directory, including PGP > and SSH. No, I'm building Mustang. I didn't yet receive a CD and my Internet connectivity is currently too limited to allow me to download RH 5. > If people want me to RPMify some tarballs for the X server or anything > special, I'd be happy to... X server? What X server? Ralf (wondering what to do with Alex's first born ...) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 04:42:08 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA225955 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:42:08 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA02678 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:37 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA02671 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:36 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA24489 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:27 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-19.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.19]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04723 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:22 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA26430; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:33:56 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204053356.04258@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:33:56 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... References: <19971204040535.06128@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 10:37:47PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 455 Lines: 12 On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 10:37:47PM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > Incidentally, is it the SRPM's from RH 5.0 that you're building? When my > libc is going, I can run my 4600 on some RPMs as well. I'm going to work > on some of the important things in the contrib directory, including PGP > and SSH. Don't waste your time on the crypto stuff - unless you happen to be outside US and Canada. Someone from a free country should take care of that. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 21:39:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id VAA194566 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:39:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA11940 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:33:36 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA11924 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:33:26 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA10883 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:33:23 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA16713 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:31:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:31:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: SGI Linux Subject: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1426 Lines: 48 Below is a message I sent off to the RPM development mailing list. The folks at RedHat said it was reasonable, but I just wanted to be sure that I got it right. Many of you understand MIPS architectures better than I, and we don't want to be making a mistake. Is the creation of a mipsel type reasonable? - Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:34:54 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: RPM-List Subject: A question about architecture and byte order. I *think* there might be an issue with MIPS architecture RPMs, but I want to make sure I get things right. There are two branches of machines that have MIPS processors. The first is little endian, and it contains things like Acer Pica and Mips Magnum. The second is big endian, and has things like my SGI Indy[1]. I'm unclear if there are some architectures that will run both. Now, the issue is that there aren't distinct architecture definitions for mips (big endian) and mipsel (little endian). They aren't binary compatible, so it does seem to me that there should be an entry like: arch_canon: mipsel: mipsel 11 in rpmrc. Am I wrong on this? - Alex [1] *almost* running srpms of RedHat 5. Alex deVries Rent this space for a $5 donation System Administrator to EngSoc per day. The EngSoc Project Send spam to spam@engsoc.carleton.ca. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 21:39:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id VAA193908 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:39:27 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA12718 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:39:09 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA12711 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:39:07 -0800 Received: from carpediem.com ([208.197.194.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA11904 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:39:06 -0800 env-from (ligeh@carpediem.com) Received: from twix.carpediem.com by carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA28136; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:35:03 -0500 Received: from barramunda by twix.carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA02760; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:36:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:39:07 -0500 (EST) From: Lige Hensley X-Sender: ligeh@barramunda Reply-To: Lige Hensley To: Chris Carlson cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <34850E4A.1075E816@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1819 Lines: 43 On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Chris Carlson wrote: > > I also would like to see Linux ported to the O2 but also don't expect it to > happen in the near future. We have to remember that SGI is a "hardware > company" and did not get where it is because of software. To ask them to > divulge the inner workings of their bread-and-butter product, thus allowing > competitors to reproduce and improve upon the design is asking for disaster. > SGI does not fabricate their own chips and they have done their best to > provide access to their source (as long as it doesn't compromise their > hardware investment). The only thing they have to sell is their design. > Since MIPS is not faring very well against competitors and there seems to me > a bit of doubt that they can stay ahead, what else does SGI have to sell? > Just their internal architecture and IRIX. I was under the impression that MIPS was doing pretty well. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I remember reading that the vast majority of MIPS chips wound up in things other than SGI computers (i.e. Sony Playstation, Nintendo 64's, etc.). >From what I read about the R12K, MIPS would appear to be near the top of the CPU game as far as raw procesing power. When compared to a Pentium-II 350 MHz, a 300MHz R12K was about equal in integer ops and nearly 5 times the speed with floating point ops. It's not an Alpha, but it far better than anything cooked up at Intel. (ok, maybe I am a little biased, but real men use RISC). -lige ---------------------------------------------------------------- Slam Foot Neck! Ride the wave. Touch Touch Touch. I'm cereal. e-mail: lige.hensley@carpediem.com www: http://www.iusd.iupui.edu/~henslelf o__ ,>/' Network Coordinator. Compression, Inc. (_)\(_) http://www.carpediem.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 21:58:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id VAA197560 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:58:13 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA14519 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:53:50 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA14514 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:53:47 -0800 Received: from dm.cobaltmicro.com ([209.19.61.51]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA14621 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:53:46 -0800 env-from (davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com) Received: (from davem@localhost) by dm.cobaltmicro.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14250; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:48:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:48:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199712040548.VAA14250@dm.cobaltmicro.com> From: "David S. Miller" To: ligeh@carpediem.com CC: cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: (message from Lige Hensley on Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:39:07 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 803 Lines: 21 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:39:07 -0500 (EST) From: Lige Hensley From what I read about the R12K, MIPS would appear to be near the top of the CPU game as far as raw procesing power. When compared to a Pentium-II 350 MHz, a 300MHz R12K was about equal in integer ops and nearly 5 times the speed with floating point ops. It's not an Alpha, but it far better than anything cooked up at Intel. Isn't R12K pre-production still, out in a few months or something like this? Anyways, if this is the case you might as well compare in the predicted Ultra III figures in your analysis as well if this is a vapor ware cpu performance comparison ;-) (ok, maybe I am a little biased, but real men use RISC). Indeed. Later, David S. Miller davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 00:15:21 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id AAA202691 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:15:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA02457 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:10:56 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA02398; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:10:44 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA49407; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:10:38 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712040810.AAA49407@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:10:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Dec 4, 97 00:31:05 am Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3348 Lines: 114 You are correct except the "mips" (big-endian) on SGI situation it is even more complex :-) Come gcc 2.8 and SGI/Linux could theoretically support N32 (the newer MIPS 32-bit ABI) and N64 (64 bits) Just like the IRIX native cc compiler. Unlike the Alpha which has only one programming model sizeof(long) = sizeof(char *) = 8 --- cut and save --- SGI has 2 programming models (source interpretation): 1) 64 bit (aka N64 or 64) compiled using "cc -64" sizeof(long) = sizeof(char *) = 8 sizeof(int) = 4 2) Old 32-bits (aka o32) compiled using "cc -32" And New 32-bits (aka n32) compiled using "cc -n32" sizeof(long long) = 8 sizeof(int) = sizeof(long) = sizeof(char *) = 4 Going into binaries: o32 and n32 are not the same, the code generated by n32 uses more efficient calling conventions and more registers and cannot run on old versions of the OS. New hardware and versions of the OS can run all of them except if your 'uname' says 'IRIX' and not 'IRIX64' it can compile (but not run) N64 binaries. The advantages of this is that the new models run faster since they are utilizing the new hardware better, plus that you don't need to make all the apps 64-bits when only 1% of them actually need this (a big saving in code and data size). The disadvantage is complexity and confusion... Once SGI/Linux becomes stable, if gcc 2.8 is out and stable we could try and migrate to supporting n32 (the dynamic linker should support it, and a new set of dynamic libraraies should be built for this) So on SGI RPM should probably be named: mips-.rpm where is one of: o32 n32 64 Currently SGI/Linux is purely o32 since that is the only ABI gcc 2.7.x knows about. The downside is that it is less efficient than what it could have been (not utilizing the R4xxx and up processors really well). --- cut and save --- : : :Below is a message I sent off to the RPM development mailing list. The :folks at RedHat said it was reasonable, but I just wanted to be sure that :I got it right. Many of you understand MIPS architectures better than I, :and we don't want to be making a mistake. : :Is the creation of a mipsel type reasonable? : :- Alex : :---------- Forwarded message ---------- :Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:34:54 -0500 (EST) :From: Alex deVries :To: RPM-List :Subject: A question about architecture and byte order. : : :I *think* there might be an issue with MIPS architecture RPMs, but I want :to make sure I get things right. : :There are two branches of machines that have MIPS processors. The first :is little endian, and it contains things like Acer Pica and Mips Magnum. :The second is big endian, and has things like my SGI Indy[1]. I'm unclear :if there are some architectures that will run both. : :Now, the issue is that there aren't distinct architecture definitions for :mips (big endian) and mipsel (little endian). They aren't binary :compatible, so it does seem to me that there should be an entry like: : :arch_canon: mipsel: mipsel 11 : :in rpmrc. : :Am I wrong on this? : :- Alex : :[1] *almost* running srpms of RedHat 5. : : : Alex deVries Rent this space for a $5 donation : System Administrator to EngSoc per day. : The EngSoc Project Send spam to spam@engsoc.carleton.ca. : : : : : -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 04:42:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA223320 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:42:04 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA02650 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:27 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA02640 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:10 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA24446 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:35:00 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-19.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.19]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04683 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:34:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27439; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:48 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204114348.10823@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:48 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: SGI Linux , rpm-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 12:31:05AM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2449 Lines: 58 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 12:31:05AM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > Below is a message I sent off to the RPM development mailing list. The > folks at RedHat said it was reasonable, but I just wanted to be sure that > I got it right. Many of you understand MIPS architectures better than I, > and we don't want to be making a mistake. > > Is the creation of a mipsel type reasonable? Definately, only the fact that there are more important things to do did so far keep me from doing so. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:34:54 -0500 (EST) > From: Alex deVries > To: RPM-List > Subject: A question about architecture and byte order. > > > I *think* there might be an issue with MIPS architecture RPMs, but I want > to make sure I get things right. > > There are two branches of machines that have MIPS processors. The first > is little endian, and it contains things like Acer Pica and Mips Magnum. > The second is big endian, and has things like my SGI Indy[1]. I'm unclear > if there are some architectures that will run both. While almost all MIPS CPUs can run in both byteorder some systems like the Acer Pica or DECstations don't support this CPU feature. There is still another CPU feature that allows to run the other flavor of software in usermode but supporting it not a Sunday afternoon hack. It requires going through _all_ the kernel code and possibly fixing the byteorder handling. > Now, the issue is that there aren't distinct architecture definitions for > mips (big endian) and mipsel (little endian). They aren't binary > compatible, so it does seem to me that there should be an entry like: > arch_canon: mipsel: mipsel 11 > > in rpmrc. > > Am I wrong on this? Unless the rpm gurus think there is a better way to do things - yes, it looks right to me. The other thing that needs to be done is to teach rpm how to recognice the various system flavours. Currently rpm relies on uname() returning "mips" and therefore thinks MIPS is always MIPS. Have to take a look at the rpm sources - is there an official way to teach rpm about incompatible variants of the same CPU architecture? Modifying uname() to return "mipsel" etc. is a bad choice. For most software it is more important to know the CPU architecture than certain specialised details like the byteorder. So returning "mipsel" would break a hell lot of software. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 05:14:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id FAA227150 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:14:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id FAA07044 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:12:11 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA06997 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:12:02 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id FAA00336 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:12:00 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-23.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.23]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07426 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:11:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27750; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:57:09 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204135709.41851@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:57:09 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: RPM factory update ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 78 Lines: 3 >70mb binaries, still compiling ... Ralf (... still whipping his Indy ...) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 06:11:37 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA226727 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:11:37 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA13328 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:20 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA13319 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:17 -0800 Received: from carpediem.com ([208.197.194.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA10163 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:15 -0800 env-from (ligeh@carpediem.com) Received: from twix.carpediem.com by carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA28836; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:02:07 -0500 Received: from barramunda by twix.carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05771; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:03:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:06:11 -0500 (EST) From: Lige Hensley X-Sender: ligeh@barramunda Reply-To: Lige Hensley To: David Chatterton cc: Chris Carlson , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1557 Lines: 41 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, David Chatterton wrote: > On Dec 4, 12:39am, Lige Hensley wrote: > | >From what I read about the R12K, MIPS would appear to be near the top of > | the CPU game as far as raw procesing power. When compared to a Pentium-II > | 350 MHz, a 300MHz R12K was about equal in integer ops and nearly 5 times > | the speed with floating point ops. It's not an Alpha, but it far better > | than anything cooked up at Intel. (ok, maybe I am a little biased, but > | real men use RISC). > | > > But the best we have right now are 200MHz R10Ks, so we are relying on our > server architecture to compete with everyone else. We all hope that MIPS can > continue to produce chips that are competitive (and the R12 looks great on > paper), but Intel has a lot more engineers and R&D budget to leap frog ahead in > the long run. That's life. As someone mentioned earlier (and what I am lead to understand) the R12K is in pre-production now, which is much more than a concept on paper. Is this correct? As far as Intel being able to leap-frog ahead in the long-run, I wouldn't count on it. I've always believed that money can't buy everything, especially in engineering. Or maybe I like to root for the underdog :-) -lige ---------------------------------------------------------------- Slam Foot Neck! Ride the wave. Touch Touch Touch. I'm cereal. e-mail: lige.hensley@carpediem.com www: http://www.iusd.iupui.edu/~henslelf o__ ,>/' Network Coordinator. Compression, Inc. (_)\(_) http://www.carpediem.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 06:11:40 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA231467 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:11:40 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA13567 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:07:31 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA13539 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:07:22 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA10254 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:24 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA22915; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:05:52 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdbxc-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 14:09 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Update ... To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca (Alex deVries) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:09:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: from "Alex deVries" at Dec 3, 97 09:36:12 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 291 Lines: 8 > Can someone _please_ break my cycle by uploading their functional libc? > Please? If I get it, and can become a productive member of society again. I think we are all in the same boat but I've been waiting cos Ralf did say he doesnt get to upload tons of stuff any time he wants. Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 06:18:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA231711 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:18:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA14872 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:17:28 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA14851 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:17:19 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA12005 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:16:22 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA23130; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:16:07 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdc7X-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 14:19 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Update ... To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:19:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <19971204053356.04258@uni-koblenz.de> from "ralf@uni-koblenz.de" at Dec 4, 97 05:33:56 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 281 Lines: 7 > Don't waste your time on the crypto stuff - unless you happen to be > outside US and Canada. Someone from a free country should take care > of that. I've got ssh , but the images I get are broken. Once the new linker and libc rpms appear I'll have an ssh out and probably PGP From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 08:47:39 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA240060 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:47:39 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA10907 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:42:13 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA10901 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:42:11 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA26085; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:42:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:42:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199712041642.IAA26085@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs In-Reply-To: <199712040810.AAA49407@oz.engr.sgi.com> References: <199712040810.AAA49407@oz.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3366 Lines: 68 Ariel Faigon writes: ... > The disadvantage is complexity and confusion... > Once SGI/Linux becomes stable, if gcc 2.8 is out and stable > we could try and migrate to supporting n32 (the dynamic linker > should support it, and a new set of dynamic libraraies should > be built for this) > > So on SGI RPM should probably be named: > mips-.rpm > > where is one of: > o32 > n32 > 64 > > Currently SGI/Linux is purely o32 since that is the only ABI > gcc 2.7.x knows about. The downside is that it is less efficient > than what it could have been (not utilizing the R4xxx and up > processors really well). ... There is a further complication. MIPS R3000-based systems will only run o32 in the MIPS I subset. MIPS R6000-based systems will run o32 in MIPS I or II. On R4000 and newer systems (including R4400, R4600, R4700, R5000, R8000, and R10000), o32 can be any of MIPS I, II, or III, and can be MIPS IV on R5000, R8000, or R10000, although MIPS III and IV are not officially supported by SGI systems for o32. n32 and n64 can be either MIPS III or MIPS IV, with MIPS IV supported only on R5000, R8000, and R10000. n32 is not really better than o32 for integer programs; it is somewhat better for floating point programs which need a lot of registers, since it enables the use of all 32 64-bit floating point registers, instead of the MIPS I-compatible 16 registers. n64 is the same as n32, except for having 64-bit addresses and long integers. Note that all models support "long long" 64-bit integers, on all versions of the architecture, although they are emulated using 32-bit arithmetic when compiling for MIPS I and II. I would recommend that "mips.rpm" be the default o32 built for MIPS I, perhaps with selected DSOs built both MIPS I and MIPS III or IV (multiple versions), with the appropriate version linked to the standard name at installation time, for those DSOs where the architecture changes make a difference. That is, one could have libgl.so being a symbolic link to one of libgl-mips1.so, libgl-mips3.so, or libgl-mips4.so, with the default (and initial setting to guarantee booting on all systems) being to link to libgl-mips1.so. One might also add extra runtime libraries (in an optional package) for n32, but the gains are very small (and the code size larger) for most normal libraries and applications. n32 really makes a difference for SPECfp (FORTRAN) programs. It rarely makes much difference for integer programs. On SGI systems, cc -n32 now often produces better code than cc -o32, but that is because they are really different compilers, and cc -o32 has had almost no work done on it for about 5 years. Both typically produce better code than gcc, at least at high optimization levels, as measured by SPECint performance. MIPS III does not help o32 programs for the most part, unless they do a lot of 64-bit (long long) integer arithmetic. MIPS IV adds some useful floating point instructions and integer conditional moves. The floating point instructions include madd and the like, and those make a large difference for graphics code and for DSP-like algorithms. Neither make a major difference to the operating system or libc, so most o32 libraries might as well be MIPS I, except perhaps for a few routines such as bcopy, which can be much faster in MIPS III. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 08:48:53 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA240429 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:48:52 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA12561 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:48:15 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA12522; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:48:08 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA20910; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:48:01 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13259; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:45:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:45:41 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: Ariel Faigon cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs In-Reply-To: <199712040810.AAA49407@oz.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1417 Lines: 40 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Ariel Faigon wrote: > SGI has 2 programming models (source interpretation): > > 1) 64 bit (aka N64 or 64) > compiled using "cc -64" > > sizeof(long) = sizeof(char *) = 8 > sizeof(int) = 4 > > 2) Old 32-bits (aka o32) compiled using "cc -32" > And > New 32-bits (aka n32) compiled using "cc -n32" > > sizeof(long long) = 8 > sizeof(int) = sizeof(long) = sizeof(char *) = 4 > > Going into binaries: o32 and n32 are not the same, the code > generated by n32 uses more efficient calling conventions > and more registers and cannot run on old versions of the OS. > New hardware and versions of the OS can run all of them except > if your 'uname' says 'IRIX' and not 'IRIX64' it can compile > (but not run) N64 binaries. The architecture of the binary RPM concerns itself with the CPU only. >From what I understand in your explanation, supporting o32, n32 and 64 executables is a function of the OS and the libraries. RPM binaries take care of this already with their OS name field and their libraries. So, I don't think we'd need to concern ourself with the o32, n32 and 64 options within the architecture field. Does this make sense? It's important that we don't screw ourselves over. - Alex Alex deVries Rent this space for a $5 donation System Administrator to EngSoc per day. The EngSoc Project Send spam to spam@engsoc.carleton.ca. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 08:52:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA241283 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:52:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA13511 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:51:42 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA13493 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:51:40 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id IAA07616; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:51:27 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712040851.ZM7614@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:51:26 -0800 In-Reply-To: Lige Hensley "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 4, 12:39am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 973 Lines: 21 Mips does quite well with cpus in the embedded systems area: about 35 Million components/year at recent count. This area accounts for good revenue for Mips and its vlsi partners. The R12000, which is an improved R10000, and its planned shrinks and process upgrades are competitive with other processors in all areas except for extreme floating point. Mips had a best-of-breed raw floating point cpu project that was cancelled because it was deemed not competitive enough in integer performance to serve in all but a few platforms. Mips processors tend to be employed with more powerful cache and memory and io subsystems than equivalent Intel parts. This natually leads to differences in cost/price. Another little-appreciated factoid: in order to comply with Intel specs for system transceiver components used with high-performance Intel cpus, one needs to use a $25 component. Nearly all cheap/fast motherboards use a $2 component that works "most of the time." g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 08:58:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA241718 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:58:07 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA14592 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:55:25 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA14585 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:55:24 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id IAA07794; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:55:14 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712040855.ZM7792@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:55:14 -0800 In-Reply-To: "David S. Miller" "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 3, 9:48pm) References: <199712040548.VAA14250@dm.cobaltmicro.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "David S. Miller" , ligeh@carpediem.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 386 Lines: 11 First silicon R12Ks exist and are being tested in the lab. It is premature to make any predictions about eventual clock rate. Production manufactured systems are usually available about 12 months from first silicon of the processor chip. In the case of the R12K this time will probably be reduced because the chips are going into the "stable" R10K hardware/software environment. g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 09:05:34 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA241790 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:05:34 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA17178 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:04:25 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA17165 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:04:23 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id JAA08163; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:03:53 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:03:53 -0800 In-Reply-To: "David Chatterton" "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 4, 5:08pm) References: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "David Chatterton" , Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 853 Lines: 19 I've been reading the O2 thread with great interest. It seems to me that a "vanilla" port of Linux on the O2 is quite feasible. Several writers have agreed. But full support in Linux for extremem platform-dependent multimedia hardware is problematic. This has also been mentioned by several writers, some of whom developed the OS code. The problems are twofold: it would be a non-trivial task even with full documentation to provide complete support for O2 hardware since the job would require as much new invention as it would require porting, and second- full disclosure of the inner workings is viewed as too much of a giveaway to present and future competitors. Makes me wonder whether the Indy port of Linux could be ratcheted into a vanilla port for the O2, and then perhaps SGI could produce binary loadable drivers for the missing bits. g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 09:12:35 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA242516 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA18198 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:07:34 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA18106 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:07:21 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA27808 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:07:17 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14340; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:04:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:04:36 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de cc: SGI Linux , rpm-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs In-Reply-To: <19971204114348.10823@uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2096 Lines: 57 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 12:31:05AM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > > Is the creation of a mipsel type reasonable? > Definately, only the fact that there are more important things to do did > so far keep me from doing so. > While almost all MIPS CPUs can run in both byteorder some systems like > the Acer Pica or DECstations don't support this CPU feature. There is Right. So they'd be of arch 'mips'. > still another CPU feature that allows to run the other flavor of software > in usermode but supporting it not a Sunday afternoon hack. Hm. RPM makes no diffrentiation between user and non-usermode apps. So, I'd say we'd mark this as 'mipsbi'. The only restriction is with kernel RPMs, and there aren't a lot of those. > It requires > going through _all_ the kernel code and possibly fixing the byteorder > handling. Nobody wants that. > Unless the rpm gurus think there is a better way to do things - yes, it > looks right to me. The other thing that needs to be done is to teach > rpm how to recognice the various system flavours. Currently rpm relies > on uname() returning "mips" and therefore thinks MIPS is always MIPS. That shouldn't be too difficult to build into .configure. For everything matching mips:*, configure should do a byte order execution check. If it can do mipsel, it's little endian. If it can do bigendian, it's mips. If it can do both, it's mipsbi. Is there an easy way to do a test like this, Ralf? > Have to take a look at the rpm sources - is there an official way to > teach rpm about incompatible variants of the same CPU architecture? Yes, sort of. There should be two binary formats defined in /usr/lib/rpmrc arch_canon: mips: mips 4 (already defined) arch_canon: mipsel: mipsel 11 Then, arch_compat: mips: noarch arch_compat: mipsel: noarch arch_compat: mipsbi: mips mipsel > Modifying uname() to return "mipsel" etc. is a bad choice. For most I agree. I think we should just patch the configure script to do a translation to mips, mipsel or mipsbi, as I described above. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 09:23:13 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA243209 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:23:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA22107 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:18:09 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA22103 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:18:08 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id JAA08770; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:17:40 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712040917.ZM8768@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:17:39 -0800 In-Reply-To: Alex deVries "Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs" (Dec 4, 12:04pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Alex deVries , ralf@uni-koblenz.de Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs Cc: SGI Linux , rpm-list@redhat.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 725 Lines: 21 On Dec 4, 12:04pm, Alex deVries wrote: > Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs > > It requires > > going through _all_ the kernel code and possibly fixing the byteorder > > handling. > > Nobody wants that. > I've been asking the compiler people for a storage class modifier that could be added to type declarations. The modifier would indicate whether the data object is stored in big-endian or little-endian format. The compiler would generate byte swizzles or not, depending on whether the native execution mode agrees with the indicated storage class. Perhaps the GCC world, being somewhat more enlightened, could do something in this area (or perhaps already is thinking about it?). g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 09:23:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA243237 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:23:03 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA23407 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:22:19 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA23375; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:22:14 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA26372; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:22:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:22:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: "Greg Chesson" Cc: "David Chatterton" , Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> References: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2382 Lines: 42 Greg Chesson writes: > I've been reading the O2 thread with great interest. > > It seems to me that a "vanilla" port of Linux on the O2 is quite feasible. > Several writers have agreed. > > But full support in Linux for extremem platform-dependent multimedia > hardware is problematic. This has also been mentioned by several writers, > some of whom developed the OS code. The problems are twofold: it would > be a non-trivial task even with full documentation to provide complete > support for O2 hardware since the job would require as much new invention > as it would require porting, and second- full disclosure > of the inner workings is viewed as too much of a giveaway to present > and future competitors. > > Makes me wonder whether the Indy port of Linux could be ratcheted into > a vanilla port for the O2, and then perhaps SGI could produce binary > loadable drivers for the missing bits. For IRIX, most of the O2 work was really in areas which, in linux, would be reasonably general purpose. In particular, being able to allocate large pages (64 KB tiles on O2) at any time, no matter how long the system has been running, was a major change, and would be useful for performance reasons on any system with variable page size, since it helps ordinary programs with large address spaces on large-memory systems, as well as supporting the O2 graphics and digital media. Similarly, having solid time-scheduled realtime support is broadly useful. For digital media, one needs a reasonably portable API, and applications on top of it, which supports high performance. With those facilities in hand, doing the drivers is not all that difficult. Providing those facilities, however, is a substantial project, and not especially tied to SGI hardware. In graphics, if linux winds up with an IRIX-compatible kernel graphics driver on some SGI boxes, the IRIX Xsgi, libgl.so, and libGL.so platform-specific binaries could run on linux. Note that each of our systems comes with a license for the then-current version of these components, so loading linux does not preclude using the IRIX components, although, at present, they may not be shipped in a linux distribution. Since they are only useful on SGI hardware, perhaps SGI could make arrangements to permit "stable" binaries to be included in linux distributions for selected platforms. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 10:43:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA249207 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:43:57 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA20483 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:29 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA20441; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:24 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA28853; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:21 -0800 env-from (rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA08587; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:40:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:40:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Greg Chesson cc: Alex deVries , ralf@uni-koblenz.de, SGI Linux , rpm-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs In-Reply-To: <9712040917.ZM8768@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 698 Lines: 17 > I've been asking the compiler people for a storage class modifier that could > be added to type declarations. The modifier would indicate whether the > data object is stored in big-endian or little-endian format. > The compiler would generate byte swizzles or not, depending on whether > the native execution mode agrees with the indicated storage class. or you could always look at the gokhale/minnich paper from 1993 (SEDMS) in which we built a compiler that did just that, conforming to the IEEE 1596.5 standard (which I helped get going along with David James). It's not that hard. We did a bit more than that, maybe too much more, but still ... I still think it's a good idea :-) ron From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 10:55:59 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA249410 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:55:59 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA24609 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:53:27 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA24237; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:52:34 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA02307; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:51:09 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA29653; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:51:04 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdgPi-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 18:54 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: greg@xtp.engr.sgi.com (Greg Chesson) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:54:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chatz@omen.melbourne.sgi.com, ligeh@carpediem.com, cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> from "Greg Chesson" at Dec 4, 97 09:03:53 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 449 Lines: 12 > Makes me wonder whether the Indy port of Linux could be ratcheted into > a vanilla port for the O2, and then perhaps SGI could produce binary > loadable drivers for the missing bits. If that is SGI's attitude to the thing then theres an Indy on my desk waiting for someone to ship it back. Actually Ariel there sort of is - unless anyone knows why the monitor would have decided to fold the middle third of the picture in really oddly .. Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 10:55:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA248276 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:55:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA25017 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:54:26 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA24992; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:54:22 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA03075; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:52:57 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA29672; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:52:53 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdgRS-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 18:56 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs To: greg@xtp.engr.sgi.com (Greg Chesson) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:56:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, rpm-list@redhat.com In-Reply-To: <9712040917.ZM8768@xtp.engr.sgi.com> from "Greg Chesson" at Dec 4, 97 09:17:39 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 600 Lines: 12 > be added to type declarations. The modifier would indicate whether the > data object is stored in big-endian or little-endian format. > The compiler would generate byte swizzles or not, depending on whether > the native execution mode agrees with the indicated storage class. > > Perhaps the GCC world, being somewhat more enlightened, could do something > in this area (or perhaps already is thinking about it?). Yeuch ;). Can't you get your guys to put that in the MMU so you can have a little endian or big endian page ? I can see how you'd make lcc generate such output but not offhand gcc From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 10:59:08 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA249335 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:59:08 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA26780 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA26765; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:58:15 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id KAA04130; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:56:22 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA29707; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:56:19 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdgUo-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 18:59 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com (William J. Earl) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:59:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: greg@xtp.engr.sgi.com, chatz@omen.melbourne.sgi.com, ligeh@carpediem.com, cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com> from "William J. Earl" at Dec 4, 97 09:22:12 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 873 Lines: 19 > linux, would be reasonably general purpose. In particular, being able > to allocate large pages (64 KB tiles on O2) at any time, no matter how I assume you mean physical tiles. 64K tiles on Linux is actually quite tricky - creating them and allocating them is ok its the fact theres no current vm way to say move this and make me a tile. (the kernel allocated objects arent a problem as the kernel can allocate drawing from tiles itself) > In graphics, if linux winds up with an IRIX-compatible kernel > graphics driver on some SGI boxes, the IRIX Xsgi, libgl.so, and > libGL.so platform-specific binaries could run on linux. Note that This is certainly a very good starting basis but its not a "complete" answer. Also of course one day Indy + IRIX always together wont be an automatic fact - I dont actually believe it is in the EEC right now anyway Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 11:44:12 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA264454 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA12411 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:37 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12397 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:36 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA20319 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:33 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23814 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:41:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:41:14 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: SGI Linux Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 496 Lines: 15 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Alan Cox wrote: > > Actually Ariel there sort of is - unless anyone knows why the monitor would > have decided to fold the middle third of the picture in really oddly .. Not to be too critical, but my monitor only sort-of works. Everyonce in awhile it'll black out, and I won't see anything until I give it a whack. I think there's a wire loose in there. It's not too troublesome, but my neighbours are starting to wonder. Anyway, I'm still happy for free hardware. - A From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 11:44:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA264629 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:44:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA12136 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:42:52 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12128 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:42:51 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id LAA14922; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:42:21 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712041142.ZM14920@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:42:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) "Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs" (Dec 4, 6:56pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, rpm-list@redhat.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 185 Lines: 5 Future MMUs are in the future. I'm more interested in solving the problem in a device-independent way. Also, doing it on a page basis is a bit restrictive and limits your options. g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 14:45:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA300540 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:32 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA07862 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:00 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA07855; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:44:58 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA18761; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:44:55 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-22.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01496; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:44:45 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30220; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:01:22 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204230122.18229@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:01:22 +0100 To: "William J. Earl" Cc: Greg Chesson , David Chatterton , Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com>; from William J. Earl on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 09:22:12AM -0800 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 6551 Lines: 120 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 09:22:12AM -0800, William J. Earl wrote: > Greg Chesson writes: > > I've been reading the O2 thread with great interest. > > > > It seems to me that a "vanilla" port of Linux on the O2 is quite feasible. > > Several writers have agreed. > > > > But full support in Linux for extremem platform-dependent multimedia > > hardware is problematic. This has also been mentioned by several writers, > > some of whom developed the OS code. The problems are twofold: it would > > be a non-trivial task even with full documentation to provide complete > > support for O2 hardware since the job would require as much new invention > > as it would require porting, and second- full disclosure > > of the inner workings is viewed as too much of a giveaway to present > > and future competitors. > > > > Makes me wonder whether the Indy port of Linux could be ratcheted into > > a vanilla port for the O2, and then perhaps SGI could produce binary > > loadable drivers for the missing bits. > > For IRIX, most of the O2 work was really in areas which, in > linux, would be reasonably general purpose. In particular, being able > to allocate large pages (64 KB tiles on O2) at any time, no matter how > long the system has been running, was a major change, and would be > useful for performance reasons on any system with variable page size, > since it helps ordinary programs with large address spaces on > large-memory systems, as well as supporting the O2 graphics and > digital media. Similarly, having solid time-scheduled realtime > support is broadly useful. For digital media, one needs a reasonably > portable API, and applications on top of it, which supports high > performance. With those facilities in hand, doing the drivers is not > all that difficult. Providing those facilities, however, is a substantial > project, and not especially tied to SGI hardware. Indeed - and you're pointing to what I consider _the_ problem with current Linux kernels. Linux uses the ``buddy system'' described by Donald Knuth's ``Algorithems And Data Structures'' to maintain it's free pages. This algorithem results in massive fragmentation even after a short uptime. On a Linux box you can press + and the kernel will print some memory statistics to the console or syslog. For the purpose of illustrating things I've appended those numbers from a couple of systems. As it is easy to see Linux doesn't do a good job at all. As a result certain kernel subsystems that need large buffers may fail on a loaded machine. Typical example is the floppy driver allocating a track sized buffer. Much worse - the networking code sometimes does atomic allocations. Atomic means it cannot sleep for swapping etc. On machines that have sufficiently fragment memory as a result network services like NFS using >=4kb blocks (results in allocation of 8kb blocks) are stalling. For my 8mb PC this may mean it will sometime stop NFS serving when nothing else is running at the same time just because the compile I was running before resulted in completly fragmented memory leaving no chunks bigger than a single 4kb page. Unfortunately there is nothing that 100% prevents this to happen under all circumstances on machines with more memory. I've seen reports of machines with >128mb of memory having 2mb of free memory left all in 4kb chunks. > In graphics, if linux winds up with an IRIX-compatible kernel > graphics driver on some SGI boxes, the IRIX Xsgi, libgl.so, and > libGL.so platform-specific binaries could run on linux. Note that > each of our systems comes with a license for the then-current version > of these components, so loading linux does not preclude using the IRIX > components, although, at present, they may not be shipped in a linux > distribution. Since they are only useful on SGI hardware, perhaps SGI > could make arrangements to permit "stable" binaries to be included in > linux distributions for selected platforms. This sounds like a possible way to go. From the technical point of view I'd prefer to rebuild those binaries - if possible - as native Linux binaries. It'd reduce memory usage significantly. As far as technical documentation about the O2 goes - does a model like - full disclosure of documentation under a NDA to some Linux developers - the NDA would contain an expiration date, maybe one or two years, after which the covered information can be disclosed because SGI does no longer consider nondisclosure a vital for it's bussines. - disclosure as binaries: Parts that are considered to be based on information that SGI thinks should not be disclosed could be made available as binaries. - disclosure as source code: This would be drivers for disk/network (as I understand SGI doesn't consider this part of the O2 to be too valuable) and a part of the technical details about GFX that allow to implement a reasonable ASCII console, maybe a simple X server and to spread these components as source. sound acceptable? While I believe we should currently not try to go for an O2 port because we still have same homework to do, I also think it's important that we find a solution that allows Linux to be used on SGI boxes before they can be considered old iron like the Indy. Another important thing to consider is that porting Linux to the O2 takes time. So until we Linux developers have produced an acceptable O2 implementation an NDA wouldn't even hurt the idea of Free Software very much. It's also time during which the value of the non-disclosed information for SGI decreases, so why shouldn't we - unlike for the Indy port - try to overlap time of non-disclosure of technical information with working on the port? Another argument for or port to current SGI hardware - many people want to prototype their embedded applications on a desktop using the same operating system and CPU type. For many embedded applications Linux is one of the operating system of choice, after all Linux has many points where it beats IRIX. Most important the price per license. For many embedded applications MIPS is the CPU of choice. So for developers of such appliances running Linux, not IRIX, on an O2 could well be the OS of choice even at the price of loosing IRIX's advantages. One of the people interested in Linux for such an MIPS based appliance being prototyped on a UNIX system was Kevin Kissel (kevink@neu.sgi.com). So I guess even for SGI having a Linux desktop should be interesting. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 3 22:11:12 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA198601 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:11:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA16774 for linux-list; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:08:17 -0800 Received: from larry.melbourne.sgi.com (larry.melbourne.sgi.com [134.14.52.130]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA16748 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:08:09 -0800 Received: from omen.melbourne.sgi.com (omen.melbourne.sgi.com [134.14.55.139]) by larry.melbourne.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA07563; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:08:06 +1100 Received: (from chatz@localhost) by omen.melbourne.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA08192; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:08:06 +1100 From: "David Chatterton" Message-Id: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:08:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: Lige Hensley "Re: Linux on the O2" (Dec 4, 12:39am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2385 Lines: 50 On Dec 4, 12:39am, Lige Hensley wrote: | Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 | On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Chris Carlson wrote: | | > | > I also would like to see Linux ported to the O2 but also don't expect it to | > happen in the near future. We have to remember that SGI is a "hardware | > company" and did not get where it is because of software. To ask them to | > divulge the inner workings of their bread-and-butter product, thus allowing | > competitors to reproduce and improve upon the design is asking for disaster. | > SGI does not fabricate their own chips and they have done their best to | > provide access to their source (as long as it doesn't compromise their | > hardware investment). The only thing they have to sell is their design. | > Since MIPS is not faring very well against competitors and there seems to me | > a bit of doubt that they can stay ahead, what else does SGI have to sell? | > Just their internal architecture and IRIX. | | I was under the impression that MIPS was doing pretty well. Someone | correct me if I am wrong, but I remember reading that the vast majority of | MIPS chips wound up in things other than SGI computers (i.e. Sony | Playstation, Nintendo 64's, etc.). | That's the point, MIPS is making a healthy profit from _non-SGI_ products though like Windows CE, N64, Playstation as you suggested. Not that I have a problem with that... | >From what I read about the R12K, MIPS would appear to be near the top of | the CPU game as far as raw procesing power. When compared to a Pentium-II | 350 MHz, a 300MHz R12K was about equal in integer ops and nearly 5 times | the speed with floating point ops. It's not an Alpha, but it far better | than anything cooked up at Intel. (ok, maybe I am a little biased, but | real men use RISC). | But the best we have right now are 200MHz R10Ks, so we are relying on our server architecture to compete with everyone else. We all hope that MIPS can continue to produce chips that are competitive (and the R12 looks great on paper), but Intel has a lot more engineers and R&D budget to leap frog ahead in the long run. That's life. David -- David Chatterton (61-3) 9882 8211 (Tel) R&D Software Engineer (61-3) 9882 8030 (Fax) Performance Tools Group http://reality.sgi.com/chatz Silicon Graphics Pty.Ltd., 357 Camberwell Rd, Melbourne, Australia From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 14:45:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA301176 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA07998 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:12 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA07693 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:44:38 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA18684 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:44:33 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-22.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01489 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:44:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30277; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:18:21 +0100 Message-ID: <19971204231821.08074@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:18:21 +0100 To: Alan Cox Cc: Alex deVries , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Update ... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alan Cox on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 02:09:00PM +0000 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 784 Lines: 18 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 02:09:00PM +0000, Alan Cox wrote: > > Can someone _please_ break my cycle by uploading their functional libc? > > Please? If I get it, and can become a productive member of society again. > > I think we are all in the same boat but I've been waiting cos Ralf did say > he doesnt get to upload tons of stuff any time he wants. Yes. Basically the problem is that I have to carry all the stuff to the university for uploading. Everything else would be pretty insane over a 28.8k line at German phone rates. Right now I already have about 120mb of pending uploads and the Indy is still compiling ... Note that only publishing libc wouldn't do the job. Some libc bugs also affect the part of libc that are being linked statically into executables. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 14:30:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA298461 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:30:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA02897 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:29:01 -0800 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA02888 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:28:59 -0800 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/930416.SGI) id RAA21929; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:28:58 -0500 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA24375; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:28:55 -0500 Message-ID: <34872EA7.F518C128@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:28:55 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex deVries CC: SGI Linux Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1435 Lines: 39 Alex deVries wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Actually Ariel there sort of is - unless anyone knows why the monitor would > > have decided to fold the middle third of the picture in really oddly .. > > Not to be too critical, but my monitor only sort-of works. Everyonce in > awhile it'll black out, and I won't see anything until I give it a whack. > I think there's a wire loose in there. It's not too troublesome, but my > neighbours are starting to wonder. > > Anyway, I'm still happy for free hardware. > > - A To both Alex and Alan: Both of those systems "should" be under SGI support. If you will run netstat -ia and give me the serial numbers (08:00:69:xx:xx:xx) Ill look them up to make sure. If they do, you can just call 1-800-800-4SGI (4744) and have them ship you brand new monitors. Eric. -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer/RSA eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" "I am the great supportfolio, do you have http?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 14:45:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA300281 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA07410 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:42 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA07375 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:36 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA18270 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:42:40 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA01363; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:41:29 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdk0o-0005FsC; Thu, 4 Dec 97 22:44 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:44:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <34872EA7.F518C128@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> from "Eric Kimminau" at Dec 4, 97 05:28:55 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 396 Lines: 8 > To both Alex and Alan: Both of those systems "should" be under SGI > support. If you will run netstat -ia and give me the serial numbers > (08:00:69:xx:xx:xx) Ill look them up to make sure. If they do, you can > just call 1-800-800-4SGI (4744) and have them ship you brand new > monitors. Ok I'll chase your UK office. Firstly it might be something dumb I can do to make it come back right 8) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 15:35:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA306850 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:35:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA24836 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:05 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA24821; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:02 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA27062; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:01 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199712042333.PAA27062@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Cc: "William J. Earl" , Greg Chesson , David Chatterton , Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <19971204230122.18229@uni-koblenz.de> References: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com> <19971204230122.18229@uni-koblenz.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3696 Lines: 68 ralf@uni-koblenz.de writes: ... > Indeed - and you're pointing to what I consider _the_ problem with > current Linux kernels. Linux uses the ``buddy system'' described by > Donald Knuth's ``Algorithems And Data Structures'' to maintain it's > free pages. This algorithem results in massive fragmentation even > after a short uptime. Are you saying that linux uses the buddy system for all of memory, or just for the kernel heap? (I would be surprised if it were used for other than the kernel heap, although that is bad enough.) ... > For my 8mb PC this may mean it will sometime stop NFS serving when > nothing else is running at the same time just because the compile I > was running before resulted in completly fragmented memory leaving > no chunks bigger than a single 4kb page. Unfortunately there is nothing > that 100% prevents this to happen under all circumstances on machines > with more memory. I've seen reports of machines with >128mb of memory > having 2mb of free memory left all in 4kb chunks. One thing we do in IRIX is to always allocate kernel heap buffers of 1 page or larger as an integral set of pages, mapped into kernel virtual space, but not part of the main kernel heap (which is used only for smaller buffers). Except for fragmentation of the kernel mapped space pool (a pool of address space, not real memory), this guarantees you can always get large buffers if pages are available. Fragmentation of smaller buffers of course requires a better heap manager, although using zone allocation (where a zone has blocks all of the same size, and there are zones for most popular sizes) helps a lot and is also faster than using the regular heap manager. ... > As far as technical documentation about the O2 goes - does a model like > > - full disclosure of documentation under a NDA to some Linux developers > - the NDA would contain an expiration date, maybe one or two years, after > which the covered information can be disclosed because SGI does no > longer consider nondisclosure a vital for it's bussines. > - disclosure as binaries: > Parts that are considered to be based on information that SGI thinks > should not be disclosed could be made available as binaries. > - disclosure as source code: > This would be drivers for disk/network (as I understand SGI doesn't > consider this part of the O2 to be too valuable) and a part of the > technical details about GFX that allow to implement a reasonable ASCII > console, maybe a simple X server and to spread these components as > source. > > sound acceptable? While I believe we should currently not try to go for > an O2 port because we still have same homework to do, I also think it's > important that we find a solution that allows Linux to be used on SGI > boxes before they can be considered old iron like the Indy. We (the SGI people on the list) will have to talk with the general manager for the O2 platform. I personally think that would be ok. As I mentioned in my earlier message, a lot of the IRIX value added for O2 is in essentially generic facilities, not in the device-dependent drivers, and we already tell customers in high level terms about the overall architecture (such as the unified memory for graphics and I/O), so there is not much in the hardware documentation which needs to be treated as a trade secret. Conceptually, the O2 graphics pipeline is fully described by the OpenGL reference (software) implementation and specification, so the hardware value added is in the internals of the implementation, not in the interface (which is essentially a large part of the OpenGL pipeline). From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 16:33:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA323761 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:33:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA14833 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:31:31 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA14618; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:31:02 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA22435; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:59 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-03.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.3]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10385; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:30:56 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA30790; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:39:44 +0100 Message-ID: <19971205003943.08926@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:39:43 +0100 To: Greg Chesson Cc: Alan Cox , adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, rpm-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs References: <9712041142.ZM14920@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <9712041142.ZM14920@xtp.engr.sgi.com>; from Greg Chesson on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:42:21AM -0800 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1602 Lines: 35 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:42:21AM -0800, Greg Chesson wrote: > Future MMUs are in the future. I'm more interested in solving the problem > in a device-independent way. Also, doing it on a page basis is a bit > restrictive and limits your options. Basically I think that the reverse endian bit as it is implemented in the kernel isn't too useful. As things are in the EntryLo register pair on R4000 and better no bit to do things on a per page base as Alan suggests is left. Well, at lest not in the lower six bits that currently contain the control information. If the reverse endian bit would also reverse accesses to userspace when running in kernel mode, it'd be much better for performance as most of the byteswapping could be left out. Ok, this in the hope some silicon guys are reading on this list. (Are there any?) As far as your original suggestion goes - yes, there is a way to declare variable attributes in GCC. It works like: unsigned int zumbitsu __attribute__((unaligned)); This for example tells GCC that the variable zumbitsu may not be allocated correctly aligned and it should generate code that takes care of that. Goodbye, address error :-) This stuff is documented in the GCC info pages, search for ``variable attributes'' and ``function attributes''. Extending that mechanism to do byteorder swapping shouldn't be too hard. I however don't believe this to be a too useful mechanism for most applications because a compiler doesn't know if used in a particular context struct foo has to be swapped or not. Did you propose this mechanism for Risc/OS 6? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 16:33:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA323111 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:33:17 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA14574 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:56 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA14217; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:26 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA22299; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:30:22 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-03.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.3]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10357; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:30:19 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA31183; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:17:46 +0100 Message-ID: <19971205011745.03995@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:17:45 +0100 To: Alan Cox Cc: Greg Chesson , chatz@omen.melbourne.sgi.com, ligeh@carpediem.com, cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alan Cox on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 06:54:18PM +0000 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1356 Lines: 30 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 06:54:18PM +0000, Alan Cox wrote: > > Makes me wonder whether the Indy port of Linux could be ratcheted into > > a vanilla port for the O2, and then perhaps SGI could produce binary > > loadable drivers for the missing bits. > > If that is SGI's attitude to the thing then theres an Indy on my desk waiting > for someone to ship it back. Actually I think there is a lot that can be negotiated. In one of my previous postings I've already gone a bit into this. Some people at SGI are *alot* more Linux-friendly than you think. Furthermore given the fact that way more UNIX systems run Linux than anything else definately has impressed a couple of people in the higher levels at SGI. Given that the way the Free Software comunity and the world of the proprietary software think is radically different we have to accept that a big company like SGI doesn't take make the way from proprietary software to Free Software in one big jump. Between black and white there is grey ... And after all - resistance is futile. "You can't outrun Penguin from Borg. You can't destroy him. If you damage him, the essence of what he is remains ... he regenerates and keeps coming. Eventually you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. His is relentless" - Q, Star Date 42761.3 ;-) Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 18:12:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA332382 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:12:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA12680 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:07:48 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA12675; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:07:46 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA17787; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:07:43 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-20.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.20]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14550; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:07:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA31621; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:33:17 +0100 Message-ID: <19971205023316.12386@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:33:16 +0100 To: "William J. Earl" Cc: Greg Chesson , David Chatterton , Lige Hensley , Chris Carlson , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 References: <9712041708.ZM8190@omen.melbourne.sgi.com> <9712040903.ZM8161@xtp.engr.sgi.com> <199712041722.JAA26372@fir.engr.sgi.com> <19971204230122.18229@uni-koblenz.de> <199712042333.PAA27062@fir.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <199712042333.PAA27062@fir.engr.sgi.com>; from William J. Earl on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 03:33:01PM -0800 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4206 Lines: 74 On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 03:33:01PM -0800, William J. Earl wrote: > > Indeed - and you're pointing to what I consider _the_ problem with > > current Linux kernels. Linux uses the ``buddy system'' described by > > Donald Knuth's ``Algorithems And Data Structures'' to maintain it's > > free pages. This algorithem results in massive fragmentation even > > after a short uptime. > > Are you saying that linux uses the buddy system for all of memory, > or just for the kernel heap? (I would be surprised if it were used > for other than the kernel heap, although that is bad enough.) The buddy system is only used to maintain the pool of free pages. The buddy system has the advantage that it is very fast. On top of this lowest level we've got additional layers: - The ``slab allocator''. It's basically what Jeff Bonwick from Sun describes in his USENIX paper from '94. Miguel has the paper on his homepage. The slab allocator has been added during the Linux 2.1.x series. - The ``simp allocator''. Yet another memory allocator for cached objects that has been added during 2.1.x. Pretty fast and still under development. - kmalloc() is the kernel equivallent to malloc(3). It's mostly used for allocations smaller than a single page but can be used to allocate upto 128kb. For Linux 2.0 kmalloc() is getting it's pages directly from the free page pool. For Linux 2.1.x kmalloc is implemented on top of the slab allocator. Both implementations are directly or indirectly getting the memory from the pool of free pages (that's KSEG0 on MIPS), therefore have to live with the advantages and disadvantages of the buddy system. > One thing we do in IRIX is to always allocate kernel heap buffers > of 1 page or larger as an integral set of pages, mapped into kernel > virtual space, but not part of the main kernel heap (which is used only > for smaller buffers). Except for fragmentation of the kernel mapped > space pool (a pool of address space, not real memory), this guarantees > you can always get large buffers if pages are available. Fragmentation > of smaller buffers of course requires a better heap manager, although > using zone allocation (where a zone has blocks all of the same size, > and there are zones for most popular sizes) helps a lot and is also > faster than using the regular heap manager. Actually we also have this type of kernel virtual memory in Linux. On MIPS the address space >=KSEG2 is being used for that purpose. The functions vmalloc(9) and vfree(9) are used for that purpose. However vmalloc is rarely being used in the kernel. Among the reasons is that vmalloc() is slower than other types of memory allocation. Furthermore the primitive PC-style DMA hardware often does not have the required support to use vmalloc'ed memory as scatter/gather buffer. Finally accessing vmalloced memory may result in TLB reloads on some architectures while pages allocated from the pool of free pages don't. So accessing vmalloced memory may imply a performance penalty. > We (the SGI people on the list) will have to talk with the > general manager for the O2 platform. I personally think that would be > ok. As I mentioned in my earlier message, a lot of the IRIX value > added for O2 is in essentially generic facilities, not in the > device-dependent drivers, and we already tell customers in high level > terms about the overall architecture (such as the unified memory for > graphics and I/O), so there is not much in the hardware documentation > which needs to be treated as a trade secret. Conceptually, the O2 graphics > pipeline is fully described by the OpenGL reference (software) implementation > and specification, so the hardware value added is in the internals > of the implementation, not in the interface (which is essentially > a large part of the OpenGL pipeline). Well, sounds good. You're making the differenciation between the interface and the implementation of the O2, something that so far people I've been discussing with haven't done. As a software guy all need is the interface and maybe a peek into internals for a better understanding of the interface. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 18:45:27 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA333436 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:45:27 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA20538 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:40:19 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA20296; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:39:36 -0800 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id SAA24033; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:39:34 -0800 env-from (rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA11160; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:39:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:39:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Alan Cox cc: Greg Chesson , adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, rpm-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 363 Lines: 13 On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Alan Cox wrote: > Yeuch ;). Can't you get your guys to put that in the MMU so you can have > a little endian or big endian page ? I can see how you'd make lcc generate > such output but not offhand gcc If it's in the compiler: 1) htonx and ntohx are history 2) xdr is history not a bad deal in my book. Put it in the MMU? 2^yeuch. :-) ron From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 19:07:43 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA336581 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:07:43 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA26900 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:05:48 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA26839; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:05:19 -0800 Received: from dm.cobaltmicro.com ([209.19.61.51]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA29458; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:05:14 -0800 env-from (davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com) Received: (from davem@localhost) by dm.cobaltmicro.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09513; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:59:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:59:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199712050259.SAA09513@dm.cobaltmicro.com> From: "David S. Miller" To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM CC: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, greg@xtp.engr.sgi.com, adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, ralf@uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, rpm-list@redhat.com In-reply-to: (rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order with RPMs References: Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1863 Lines: 51 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:39:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Alan Cox wrote: > Yeuch ;). Can't you get your guys to put that in the MMU so you can have > a little endian or big endian page ? I can see how you'd make lcc generate > such output but not offhand gcc If it's in the compiler: 1) htonx and ntohx are history 2) xdr is history not a bad deal in my book. Put it in the MMU? 2^yeuch. :-) Some architectures (I believe both PPC and UltraSPARC) provide three mechanisms to specify endiannes for load and store operations. 1) In processor status register, a "everything foo-endian" bit exists, there is also a "trap foo-endian" bit which states which endianness exception handlers run with. 2) Load and Store instructions can specify "endianness attributes" so for example on Sparc-V9 you can say lda [%addr_reg] ASI_PL, %dest_reg ASI means "Address Space Identifier" and PL means "Primary address space Little-endian". 3) Per-page MMU endianness attribute bits. Those who casually disassemble the solaris kernel now and again will notice that the SLAB allocator in UltraSPARC kernels provides two sets of interfaces for allocation, one gives you little endian chunks the other gives you big-endian chunks. They implement this by frobbing the PTE bits in the kernel mappings for these SLABs. In the age of PCI, these three mechanism are super handy for Big-Endian systems. You get the best of both worlds, of interest namely is: 1) No byte swapping for IP networking header processing. 2) Direct access to legacy PCI cards, in the correct PCI (ie. little endian) byte order, at zero cost. 3) Support for arbitrary endianness filesystem layouts, in core, again at zero cost. Later, David S. Miller davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 4 19:28:44 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA337552 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:28:44 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA01010 for linux-list; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:27:03 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA00996 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:27:00 -0800 Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA03905 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:25:34 -0800 env-from (campbell@ukans.edu) Received: from dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id VAA0000006980; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:25:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:25:47 -0600 (CST) From: Chad Campbell X-Sender: campbell@dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 In-Reply-To: <19971205023316.12386@uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 450 Lines: 12 This is my second to last semester, and I'm now in the OS class. I have a question about page miss resolution. Does the kernel use a global or local strategy to determine which pages get swapped out? My teacher, Victor Wallace, has done research on using global resolution strategies, and has found it to be supperior, but he didn't know of any OS that actually uses it. Chad Campbell Web Manager, University of Kansas Natural History Museum From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 01:06:48 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id BAA388212 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:06:47 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA14995 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:04:59 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA14976; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:04:52 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA03331; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:03:27 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA12483; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:03:22 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xdtip-0005FsC; Fri, 5 Dec 97 09:06 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Linux on the O2 To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:06:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, greg@xtp.engr.sgi.com, chatz@omen.melbourne.sgi.com, ligeh@carpediem.com, cwcarlson@home.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <19971205011745.03995@uni-koblenz.de> from "ralf@uni-koblenz.de" at Dec 5, 97 01:17:45 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 403 Lines: 13 > > If that is SGI's attitude to the thing then theres an Indy on my desk waiting > > for someone to ship it back. Ok before this goes too far let me point of that there were a certain number of invisible humour/sarcasm tags on that comment as a lead in to the monitor info. To start with if Dave can figure out an ultrasparc and we can crack the Macintosh 68K nobody in SGI could stop us 8) Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 09:13:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA414159 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:13:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA24454 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:09 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA24424 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:04 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA05855 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:11:00 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-09.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.9]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24125 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:10:57 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02427; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:07:17 +0100 Message-ID: <19971205180717.22087@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:07:17 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Update ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1504 Lines: 27 135mb rpm packages and maybe 20mb tarballs waiting to be uploaded. Plus a small pile of tarballs ... Problems still to solve: - a change in the kernel makes ld.so die under certain circumstances. - RedHat's sh-utils package is broken, it's pam support doesn't compile. - When building the binutils 2.8.1-1 rpm cc1 dies with signal 6. Strange, because the same package works great on the little endian boxes and GCC actually shouldn't contain byteorder problems. - the Emacs srpm refuses to he compiled on big endian machines - I think I found the bug causing the large number of timouts the Seeq driver is signalling. Haven't tested it, my kernel sources are in the other end of the universe, under IRIX and I don't feel like rebooting ... - timekeeping seems to be pretty broken, I saw my clock doing 10h in three hours of uptime. - the console code is somehow broken. Occasionally it writes garbage characters under the lowest line that normally is used. When the screenblanker is active one can see it writing garbage characters on other places of the screen. Aside it's crawling, scrolling in less reminds of a Sparc console of a slow Sparc. Furthermore I suspect the console is also the cause of the memory corruption I occasionally see. Fixing #1 is the most important. It breaks recompiling libc as well as the library dependency generation in RPM for all packages. RPM, btw. is dumb and continues without noticing ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 09:18:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA415842 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:18:29 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA26202 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:18:03 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA26189 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:17:56 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA07744 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:17:53 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07167; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:15:24 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:15:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199712051715.LAA07167@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux-mips@fnet.fr CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr In-reply-to: <19971202200147.44637@uni-koblenz.de> (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) Subject: Re: vmalloc hacks X-Windows: You'll envy the dead. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 252 Lines: 10 Hello Ralf, > So you'll have to make vmalloc a real function again or you'll break the > binary compatibility with modules. Ok, not very much an issue. Probably sched.c just needs to include vmalloc.h, that should get rid of this problem. Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 10:30:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA421571 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:30:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA18204 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:27:25 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA18188 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:27:23 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA54904 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:27:22 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712051827.KAA54904@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI/Linux mailing list) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:27:22 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 6159 Lines: 120 [One of my filters just hit this on comp.os.linux.misc I think the guy has a point and I thought it was interesting] Subject: M$'s strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario From: mito@aparima.com (Louis-David Mitterrand) Date: 4 Dec 1997 19:06:27 GMT Message-ID: Organization: Aparima inc. Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc , comp.os.linux.advocacy Using Linux every day, one never ceases to learn and be amazed at the creativity and cleverness of Linux contributors worldwide. This platform is seriously coming of age: some major institutions are starting to rely on it for production work. Like Microsoft software at some time, Linux entered the enterprise through the back door right under the nose of IT staff sometimes. Now network admins are discovering its reliability, "suits" never had a chance to veto it because it never was a budget item, engineering likes to work with it at home. Then one day you wake up and you realize Linux has become ubiquitously present in your enterprise without having been officially invited. And everybody learns to like the Penguin: friendly, never raises a fuss, does its job, doesn't eat much. OK, now what's next? Linux means business, *is* business. The coming of age is very real: RedHat 5.0 is winning rave reviews for its ease-of-use and idiot-proof installation "even easier than NT", the Wine project (windows emulator) is starting to make serious progress and some major win32 apps are beginning to work. It won't take much more than another year to see comprehensive support for Win95/NT apps under Linux. Next thing, people will ask "why shell out $800 for NT Server, when I can get the same more reliable services from a $50 RedHat CD? These MS support people never answer the phone anyway, and I can run Office97 with Wine." Hmmm.. I see a pattern there. NT 5.0 delayed (again..) and RedHat is there today. Anyway the next question I have is a major one (two): - now that Linux is starting to appear on MS's radar screen what is MS going to do about it? - How should the Linux community ensure Linux's future, freedom and copyrights against a big, greedy, powerful corporation whose central product (NT) is threatened by a free unix clone? I want to rely on Linux for everything I do in my little consulting operation. "rely" means I want to be sure nobody will be able to highjack Linux. Bill Gates is not a fool and he is certainly not one to underestimate the power of grassroots movements. I'm sure he already has a strategy to deal with Linux at some point. Or he is seriously thinking about one. The problem is: I bet this strategy doesn't rely on fair competition in open markets and feature-to-feature comparisons. Why? Simply because it is impossible to compete against the Linux community's talent pool on the basis of performance and features. And I'm deeply concerned. What is the man preparing? Call me a paranoid and I'll answer "only the paranoid survive" (dixit Andy Grove, 95% market share). One main concern I have is Transmeta, inc., Linus Torvalds' employer. This company is more or less controlled by Paul Allen, the Seattle billionaire and Microsoft founder. Mr Allen is still a MS board member and 10% (?) shareholder. Mr Allen is also one of Bill Gates' closest friends (is he has any) and confidants. Weren't they together on Fortune Magazine's cover less than a year ago? It is of public knowledge that they consult regularly one a variety of subjects, especially on the Microsoft Corporation strategy. Now in my nightmares a conversation between the two of them often recurs: - B.G: "Hey Paul, this guy Linus Torvalds is finishing his studies out there in Finland, the stuff he's making - this Linux OS - looks pretty neat, why don't you make him an offer he can't refuse?" - P.A: "No problem Bill, I'll park him at Transmeta, they're making hot stuff and I'll give him plenty of free time to keep developing this Linux thingy, under our watchful eye." - B.G: "Right. Then if it gets out of control we can buy you out and put our stamp on the stuff. After a couple years we can claim all this was developed on company time. Then we'll just merge it into NT." - P.A: "I'll give you an option to take over at $xxx,xxx,xxx." This is a nightmare scenario of course. I have a deep respect for Linus' work and way of managing the kernel development. But isn't he a bit young and inexperienced against the West Coast's big guns? Hasen't he fell into a huge trap? Imagine Microsoft taking over Transmeta at some point in the (not so distant) future and saying that Linux code is tainted with MS copyrighted code because Linus worked on it while at Transmeta (now an MS affiliate)... Imagine RedHat, Caldera, Debian obliged to take down their FTP servers because of the legal tangle about Linux... Even if MS is rebutted in court and Linux comes out clean as *truly free* software it will take at least two years (or more) to clear out the smoke. Meanwhile NT will have made major inroads everywhere. And the Linux threat will be seriously diminished. I hear people yelling "how about the GNU license you dork?". Hmm.. and I answer: has anybody challenged the GPL in the courts? Has the FSF ever had to defend it against a mean, influential and deep-pocketed corporation? Like Stalin asking "The Pope? How many armored divisions?" I ask "GNU? How many lawyers, lobbyists, cash-on-hand at the bank? Up to now nobody cared about GNU software. No software company saw it as a threat. These bearded, suspender-wearing UN*X idealists didn't bother anybody. Today GNU software is becoming essential and a competitive threat. SUN should be even more worried than MS on that count. Please somebody tell me this nightmare scenario is just plain stupid, impossible and I'll be happy and go away and sleep better... Cheers. -- Louis-David Mitterrand mito@m2.sprynet.com -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 13:26:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA436882 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:26:29 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA14404 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:21:18 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA14367 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:21:09 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA19440 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:21:07 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-14.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.14]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03116 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:21:05 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03655; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <19971205221443.34173@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:14:43 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr Subject: Grrr... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 434 Lines: 17 Ok, I isolated the GCC problem I reported earlier today. The following little program which I extracted from binutils-2.8.1-1 will crash cc1 on some Linux/MIPS boxes with SIGSEGV when compiled with optimization enabled: bfd_link_section_stabs (void) { unsigned long long i, count; for (i = 0; i < count; i++); } It seems to be important that - i is unsigned long long - count is uninitialized Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 13:33:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA437306 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA18434 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:32:14 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA18424 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:32:13 -0800 Received: from contract.kent.edu (denali.contract.kent.edu [131.123.210.5]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id NAA22370 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:32:11 -0800 env-from (mike@contract.kent.edu) Message-Id: <199712052132.NAA22370@sgi.sgi.com> Received: (qmail 23182 invoked from network); 5 Dec 1997 21:31:03 -0000 Received: from denali.contract.kent.edu (HELO contract.kent.edu) (131.123.210.5) by denali.contract.kent.edu with SMTP; 5 Dec 1997 21:31:03 -0000 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:27:22 -0800 (PST) <199712051827.KAA54904@oz.engr.sgi.com> X-Chromosomes: One Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:31:02 -0500 From: Mike Acar Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2324 Lines: 39 [Snip: Linus works for Transmeta, which Microsoft might buy in order to "acquire" Linux. Legal or not, the legal fight might hamper Linux's spread well enough to significantly reduce the threat to NT.] This isn't a particularly big worry to me. The GPL aside, Linus's contract with Transmeta almost definitely states specifically that Transmeta has no rights at all to software Linus wrote before he was employed there; similarly, it almost definitely excludes rights to software Linus writes on his own time. Further, I'm not sure how much of the kernel Linus actually "owns" anymore; my understanding (flawed it may be) is that he's primarily coordinating kernel release and design, and not actually writing nearly as much code as he did. If this is the case, Linus himself might not be able to claim ownership of the kernel anymore. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I speak from a position of significant ignorance; handfuls of salt all round. But I really don't think that MS is going to be able to use intellectual property to attack Linux. What does worry me, however, is that Intel, MS and others are making significant progress in taking control of the PC architecture. With the patented Slot-One and Slot-Two, Intel is putting serious pressure on its competitors in the motherboard markets; between Slot-One, Slot-Two, and buying the Alpha, I expect the threat to Intel's dominance of the PC CPU market to virtually disappear. The I2O SIG will control access to the hardware docs on the next generation of fast PCs, and the licensing terms - let alone the SIG member's veto power over membership applicants - are in fundamental conflict with Linux and the other free PC Unices. Microsoft might not need to try to crush Linux directly; there's a distinct possibility that Linux simply won't run on the next generation of PCs. But maybe that's just my negativity speaking. I doubt that even a large part of the PC industry would like to see the architecture grow proprietary; perhaps SGI could lead the way in providing a design for a new PC-class architecture which is Open Hardware compliant/approved. Along those lines, are there any plans for providing Linux drivers for the Wintel hardware SGI's announced for next summer? -- Mike Acar - mike@contract.kent.edu - "This autumn is sad beyond belief." - Kafka From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 14:25:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA443229 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:25:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA02758 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:20:39 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA02726; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:20:37 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (971110.SGI.8.8.8/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA60317; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:20:37 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario To: mike@contract.kent.edu (Mike Acar) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:20:36 -0800 (PST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712052132.NAA22370@sgi.sgi.com> from "Mike Acar" at Dec 5, 97 04:31:02 pm Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1712 Lines: 44 Mike wrote: : :[Snip: Linus works for Transmeta, which Microsoft might buy in order to :"acquire" Linux. Legal or not, the legal fight might hamper Linux's spread well :enough to significantly reduce the threat to NT.] : :This isn't a particularly big worry to me. : Just to make it clear, I just forwarded the piece and I don't necessarily agree with the poster on most points. To me the day MS starts using legal threats and acquisitions in order to stop Linux can be declared the day Linux has won. Unfortunately for us Linux lovers, before Wine can run _all_ the Win32 apps without _any_ problem (not so close IMHO) and before Linux has a dumb-user GUI that really hides all the incredible (for the average Windows user) Unix complexities from the majority of the user base it doesn't have a chance of world domination, not even in the enterprise servers low-end space. : :What does worry me, however, is that Intel, MS and others are making :significant progress in taking control of the PC architecture. : Excellent and valid point. Note that there are new forces on the rise which directly clash with Intel interests. I'm refering to both the existing National-Semiconductor + Cyrix merger and AMD, and to the (about 9 at last count) startups working on x86 compatible designs. The next few years will be interesting and Intel might very probably not emerge as the winner. : :Along those lines, are there any plans for providing Linux drivers for the :Wintel hardware SGI's announced for next summer? : I can understand the curiosity and interest. Please note that SGI future products and plans are highly confidential and are not supposed to take place on this public forum. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 14:44:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA445983 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:44:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA08425 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:53 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA08404 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:51 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA10831 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:47 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA29725; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:39:36 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xe6T1-0005FsC; Fri, 5 Dec 97 22:43 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario To: mike@contract.kent.edu (Mike Acar) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:43:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712052132.NAA22370@sgi.sgi.com> from "Mike Acar" at Dec 5, 97 04:31:02 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 953 Lines: 18 > The I2O SIG will control access to the hardware docs on the next generation of > fast PCs, and the licensing terms - let alone the SIG member's veto power over > membership applicants - are in fundamental conflict with Linux and the other > free PC Unices. Microsoft might not need to try to crush Linux directly; there's > a distinct possibility that Linux simply won't run on the next generation of > PCs. I2O is in hand, most I2O vendors I've talked to are very determined to see the spec become open and the general public vendors are taking from all sides - including where it counts with the "We wont buy i2o boxes as it ties us to unsuitable OS's". The SIG may also move in that way given time. If not we'll just break it. The fact they erroneously published the spec helps a lot You arent watching hard. The microsoft strategy is NT for servers, and Windows CE embedded in everything from your TV, telephone to toilet. CE is on ROM.. Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 14:48:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA446162 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:48:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA10658 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:47:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA10645; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:47:43 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id OAA13234; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:47:40 -0800 env-from (imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xe6Wt-00018w-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:47:27 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA12296; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:46:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712052246.PAA12296@harmony.village.org> To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario Cc: mike@contract.kent.edu (Mike Acar), linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:20:36 PST." <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> References: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:46:19 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2274 Lines: 44 In message <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> Ariel Faigon writes: : To me the day MS starts using legal threats and acquisitions in order : to stop Linux can be declared the day Linux has won. Unfortunately : for us Linux lovers, before Wine can run _all_ the Win32 apps without : _any_ problem (not so close IMHO) and before Linux has a dumb-user GUI : that really hides all the incredible (for the average Windows user) : Unix complexities from the majority of the user base it doesn't have : a chance of world domination, not even in the enterprise servers : low-end space. Keep in mind that there are other free unix implementations that are also likely starting to appear on the radar screen of Microsoft. FreeBSD has made significant inroads in many places, for example. The only reason that I have Win95 on my laptop at all is to run quickbooks, quicken and the odd Word or Execel thing. Wine can't run quicken well enough yet for me to be able to rely on it for my day to day activities. : Excellent and valid point. Note that there are new forces on the : rise which directly clash with Intel interests. I'm refering to : both the existing National-Semiconductor + Cyrix merger and AMD, : and to the (about 9 at last count) startups working on x86 compatible : designs. The next few years will be interesting and Intel might very : probably not emerge as the winner. The whole effort to gain control of the architecture reminds me of the micro channel fiasco that IBM did. Granted, the I2O stuff is less restrictive than that, but if Intel goes too far on this, they might find themselves w/o a market. Also, there are people on the FreeBSD mailing lists who claim to have unencumbered access to the I2O specs. I don't see that the free unixes will be locked out of that area for very long, even if the SIG folks want them to. There is just too much vested interest in having them run on the next generation of PCs to hold back the tide for long. BTW, there are some folks around here getting rid of Indigo's with a fair amount of disk/memory on them (2G disk, 64M memory) with monitors. They are currently up for bid. How different are these beasts than the Indy? Would Linux run on them? What would be a fair price to bid on them? Warner From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 15:10:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA448394 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:10:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA17414 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:08:29 -0800 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA17334; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:08:13 -0800 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/930416.SGI) id SAA07646; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:08:09 -0500 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA27080; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:08:07 -0500 Message-ID: <34888957.8785388B@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:08:07 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh CC: Ariel Faigon , Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario References: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> <199712052246.PAA12296@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1170 Lines: 29 > BTW, there are some folks around here getting rid of Indigo's with a > fair amount of disk/memory on them (2G disk, 64M memory) with > monitors. They are currently up for bid. How different are these > beasts than the Indy? Would Linux run on them? What would be a fair > price to bid on them? > > Warner There are several models of Indigo. If it is an R4000, its fairly close to an Indy without the multimedia things. The problem you will find is that there were also several levels of graphics. Bid price 64MB ram, 2GB disk, 19-20" monitor, R4k - $500.00 -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer/RSA eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" "I am the great supportfolio, do you have http?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 15:48:21 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA461013 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:48:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA28364 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:45:05 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA28255 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:44:42 -0800 Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA28991 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:44:36 -0800 env-from (campbell@ukans.edu) Received: from dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id RAA0000008571; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:44:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:44:58 -0600 (CST) From: Chad Campbell X-Sender: campbell@dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us To: SGI/Linux mailing list Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712051827.KAA54904@oz.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4450 Lines: 81 On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Ariel Faigon wrote: This is not a reply to Ariel, but how I would respond to the author of Ariel's forward. > - B.G: "Hey Paul, this guy Linus Torvalds is finishing his studies out > there in Finland, the stuff he's making - this Linux OS - looks pretty > neat, why don't you make him an offer he can't refuse?" > > - P.A: "No problem Bill, I'll park him at Transmeta, they're making hot > stuff and I'll give him plenty of free time to keep developing this > Linux thingy, under our watchful eye." > > - B.G: "Right. Then if it gets out of control we can buy you out and put > our stamp on the stuff. After a couple years we can claim all this was > developed on company time. Then we'll just merge it into NT." > > - P.A: "I'll give you an option to take over at $xxx,xxx,xxx." Keep in mind that all of Linus' work and the whole kernel is GPL'd. Also, M$ would have to prove that Linus was on company time to assert copyright on any code. From what I have read, Linus has a contract with TransMeta which specifically allows him some amount of time to work on Linux, so they would not only have to prove Linus was on company time, they would have to prove he was working out of bounds of the time specifically allowed by his contract. This would be tough to say the least. Also, remember that all kernel code is not by Linus, so even in the worst case we would just have to remove whatever code was truly TransMeta copyright and re-implement Linus' contribution some other way. > This is a nightmare scenario of course. I have a deep respect for Linus' > work and way of managing the kernel development. But isn't he a bit > young and inexperienced against the West Coast's big guns? Hasen't he > fell into a huge trap? Maybe, but Linux does not live or die by its creator. I think that if M$ messes with Linus, every other developer will be so pissed, that the kernel and maybe every other part of Linux will improve at an even faster rate.. That would certainly give me motivation to burn the midnight oil, if only I wasn't burning too much trying to graduate. > I hear people yelling "how about the GNU license you dork?". Hmm.. and I > answer: has anybody challenged the GPL in the courts? Has the FSF ever > had to defend it against a mean, influential and deep-pocketed > corporation? Like Stalin asking "The Pope? How many armored divisions?" > I ask "GNU? How many lawyers, lobbyists, cash-on-hand at the bank? Up to > now nobody cared about GNU software. No software company saw it as a > threat. These bearded, suspender-wearing UN*X idealists didn't bother > anybody. Today GNU software is becoming essential and a competitive > threat. SUN should be even more worried than MS on that count. I've read the GPL and it seems very secure, if it actually applies to the code Linus rights. I don't think M$ would even try to argue against the GPL, they would simply argue that since Linus was on company time that he did not have the authority to place his code under the protection of the GPL. Also, I don't think GNU would have any difficulty getting support from the rest of the industry in testifying against M$ and in support of the GPL were M$ to actually challenge the authority of GPL'd code. > Please somebody tell me this nightmare scenario is just plain stupid, > impossible and I'll be happy and go away and sleep better... No way, it's a very valid point, but I think that Linux is now strong enough to function without Linus if it has to, so while your nightmare could be real, you may be overestimating the danger. One other point. I don't think M$ could support any claim of being an innovator of any new methods of OS design. They simply bark the loudest when they finally figure out how to implement 20 year old ideas. So even if they succeeded in copyrighting Linus' code, we could just rewrite it in a different way and then they would have to prove either that the new code was a more or less direct copy of their code or a result of disassembling Windoze. Of course no self respecting Linux developer would even consider copying or disassembling an inferior OS. All the same, It might not be a bad idea to keep old kernel sources lying around just in case this nightmare happens. I would guess that this has always been the case anyway. Chad Chad Campbell Web Manager, University of Kansas Natural History Museum From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 15:55:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA457099 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:55:49 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA01335 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:55:05 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA01329; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:55:03 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA02883; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:54:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:54:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199712052354.PAA02883@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Warner Losh Cc: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon), mike@contract.kent.edu (Mike Acar), linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712052246.PAA12296@harmony.village.org> References: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> <199712052246.PAA12296@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 783 Lines: 16 Warner Losh writes: ... > BTW, there are some folks around here getting rid of Indigo's with a > fair amount of disk/memory on them (2G disk, 64M memory) with > monitors. They are currently up for bid. How different are these > beasts than the Indy? Would Linux run on them? What would be a fair > price to bid on them? The Indigo R4000 is pretty close to the Indy in many respects, although the I/O and graphics are earlier generation in the same family. The Indigo (R3000) has similar graphics and I/O, but is of course an R3000, and the memory controller is a different design. Linux could run on either, but more porting would be required. Many of the drivers could be shared, with some adjustments, but the graphics would definitely require significant work. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 16:18:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA464185 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA08965 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:14:26 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA08956 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:14:24 -0800 Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA07629 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:14:22 -0800 env-from (campbell@ukans.edu) Received: from dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id SAA0000032252; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:14:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:15:01 -0600 (CST) From: Chad Campbell X-Sender: campbell@dv123s34.lawrence.ks.us To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <34888957.8785388B@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 261 Lines: 7 > Bid price 64MB ram, 2GB disk, 19-20" monitor, R4k - $500.00 If it'll run Linux, I'll give that much too, maybe a little more. That bid seems real low to me though, so if it was a joke, I'll be a stupid little undergrad now and go sit in my corner. :) Chad From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 16:20:02 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA462876 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:20:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA10013 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:14 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA09933 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:02 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA08523 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:17:57 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA16538; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:15:18 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:15:18 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries Reply-To: Alex deVries To: RPM-List cc: SGI Linux Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1221 Lines: 33 On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Erik Troan wrote: > No you're probably right -- I just know nothing about mips ;-) Any objections > to a mipsel arch folks? There's been no objections to having a mipsel architecture, so it's safe to assume that we can go ahead. Because this isn't reported in uname, there'll have to be some additions made to ./configure to test the default byte order, and set the arch to mips or mipsel accordingly. Also, it looks like there's going to have to be some work done on lib/rpmrc.c in defaultMachine(). I'll work on patches for those over the weekend, they shouldn't be difficult to do. Now, as for mipsbi, the architecture that would be able to run both mips and mipsel... I think the only way to test this is to attempt to run binaries of both byteorders. I don't quite know how to do this without including precompiled binaries of both byteorders. Maybe something like including a precompiled stream of bytes. It'll be ugly, though. Please let me know if you know of a non-OS specific way of doing this. - A Alex deVries Rent this space for a $5 donation System Administrator to EngSoc per day. The EngSoc Project Send spam to spam@engsoc.carleton.ca. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 20:13:09 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id UAA499917 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:13:09 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA25621 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:09:55 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA25610 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:09:45 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA26654 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:09:42 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-10.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.10]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20323 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:09:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09356; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:05:56 +0100 Message-ID: <19971206050554.18027@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:05:54 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Seeq timeouts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 150 Lines: 6 Hi, I've tested my fix for the sgiseeq driver. Now that the thing is fixed the Indy is good for about 900kb/s. Still not what I expect ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 5 22:44:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA490608 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:44:41 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA09482 for linux-list; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:38:11 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA09458 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:38:05 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA19366 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:38:03 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (ralf@pmport-19.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.19]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22754 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:38:01 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09913; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:29:56 +0100 Message-ID: <19971206072955.54783@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:29:55 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: RPM-List , SGI Linux Subject: Re: A question about architecture and byte order. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 07:15:18PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1511 Lines: 30 On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 07:15:18PM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Erik Troan wrote: > Because this isn't reported in uname, there'll have to be some additions > made to ./configure to test the default byte order, and set the arch to > mips or mipsel accordingly. The copy of config.guess in the rpm sources is very old. The FSF's copy recognices mips{el}-*-linux correctly since a year or so ... > Now, as for mipsbi, the architecture that would be able to run both mips > and mipsel... I think the only way to test this is to attempt to run > binaries of both byteorders. I don't quite know how to do this without > including precompiled binaries of both byteorders. Maybe something like > including a precompiled stream of bytes. It'll be ugly, though. Please > let me know if you know of a non-OS specific way of doing this. For now mipsbi is a pretty theoretical construct. To my knowledge the only biendian implementation of an operating system on MIPS has been Risc/OS 6 which has never been released to the public. So no code necessary at all :-) If I ever implement it for Linux then I'll make the bi-endian option somehow detectable. The other issue I was thinking about is that we currently have rpms of both byteorder using the same filename and archtecture identifier inside the file. Maybe changing the architecture for the bigendian packages also to mipseb would reduce the danger of people cutting them into their fingers by installing the wrong package? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 06:33:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA485733 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:32:59 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA18207 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:27:30 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA18191 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:27:19 -0800 Received: from kyle.neuffer.org (dialin125.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE [134.93.174.125]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA15314 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:27:17 -0800 env-from (neuffer@trudi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE) Received: from localhost (neuffer@localhost) by kyle.neuffer.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00579; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:44 +0100 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:44 +0100 (CET) From: Michael Neuffer Reply-To: neuffer@trudi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE To: Alan Cox cc: Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 730 Lines: 14 On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Alan Cox wrote: > I2O is in hand, most I2O vendors I've talked to are very determined to see > the spec become open and the general public vendors are taking from all > sides - including where it counts with the "We wont buy i2o boxes as it ties > us to unsuitable OS's". The SIG may also move in that way given time. If not > we'll just break it. The fact they erroneously published the spec helps a lot Unfortunately the spec got updated to 2.0 and from my sources I hear that it is not exactly upwards compatible. We will surely be able to break it given time, since somene somewhere will surly leak it at some point, but time is unfortunately also all that Billy Boy needs to gain an unfair advantage. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 04:45:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA528893 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:45:29 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA11242 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:42:43 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA11234 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:42:37 -0800 Received: from carpediem.com ([208.197.194.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA03805 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:42:35 -0800 env-from (ligeh@carpediem.com) Received: from twix.carpediem.com by carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA05301; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:38:28 -0500 Received: from barramunda by twix.carpediem.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA03398; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:40:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: Lige Hensley X-Sender: ligeh@barramunda To: mito@aparima.com cc: SGI/Linux mailing list Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712051827.KAA54904@oz.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2007 Lines: 48 On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Ariel Faigon wrote: > [One of my filters just hit this on comp.os.linux.misc > I think the guy has a point and I thought it was interesting] > > Subject: M$'s strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario > From: mito@aparima.com (Louis-David Mitterrand) > Date: 4 Dec 1997 19:06:27 GMT > Message-ID: > Organization: Aparima inc. > Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc , comp.os.linux.advocacy > > OK, now what's next? Linux means business, *is* business. The coming of > age is very real: RedHat 5.0 is winning rave reviews for its ease-of-use > and idiot-proof installation "even easier than NT", the Wine project > (windows emulator) is starting to make serious progress and some major > win32 apps are beginning to work. It won't take much more than another > year to see comprehensive support for Win95/NT apps under Linux. Next > thing, people will ask "why shell out $800 for NT Server, when I can get > the same more reliable services from a $50 RedHat CD? These MS support > people never answer the phone anyway, and I can run Office97 with Wine." Even more important than Linux being easier to install than NT is reliability. I am in the middle of a project to remove about $200,000 worth of NT servers and replace them with Linux boxes. Of the servers installed thus far, we've seen our incidence of problems go from about 2 a week to zero (and peformance boasts out the wazoo). I'm currently working on an article for LJ about our project and how to do it yourself. The possibly of Linux as an NT replacement is not only real, it's happening. -lige "Live Free Or Die" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Slam Foot Neck! Ride the wave. Touch Touch Touch. I'm cereal. e-mail: lige.hensley@carpediem.com www: http://www.iusd.iupui.edu/~henslelf o__ ,>/' Network Coordinator. Compression, Inc. (_)\(_) http://www.carpediem.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 11:13:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA551635 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:13:04 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA11413 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:06:48 -0800 Received: from xtp.engr.sgi.com (xtp.engr.sgi.com [150.166.75.34]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA11409 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:06:46 -0800 Received: by xtp.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id LAA22079; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:06:41 -0800 From: "Greg Chesson" Message-Id: <9712061106.ZM22076@xtp.engr.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:06:40 -0800 In-Reply-To: Lige Hensley "Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario" (Dec 6, 7:42am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Lige Hensley , mito@aparima.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario Cc: SGI/Linux mailing list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 250 Lines: 8 LJ is not as widely read as one would hope. I'd suggest sending the article to Red Herring, Upside, and the Wall Street Journal. It would probably not be accepted in the same form that is appropriate for LJ, but it might very well be excerpted. g From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 14:53:37 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA564784 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:53:37 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA02095 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:47:55 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA02087; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:47:49 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA18293; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:47:47 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11569; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:16:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:16:13 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: Warner Losh cc: Ariel Faigon , Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712052246.PAA12296@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 940 Lines: 21 > The whole effort to gain control of the architecture reminds me of the > micro channel fiasco that IBM did. Granted, the I2O stuff is less > restrictive than that, but if Intel goes too far on this, they might > find themselves w/o a market. Actually this would probably put the companies using I20 specs in a very similar position that many of the big unix workstation vendors find themself in now. What more, if Linux did (it will I'm sure) run on this architecture it would put itself in a great position, espiecially if Microsoft stop supporting the old architecture while other companies continue to produce them. (How badly does Bill Gates want it to go his way?) --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 15:03:51 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA559151 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:03:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA03021 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:58:20 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA02982; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:58:04 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA19556; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:58:02 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11635; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:26:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:26:41 -0500 (U) From: cypher To: Ariel Faigon cc: Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2413 Lines: 55 On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Ariel Faigon wrote: > To me the day MS starts using legal threats and acquisitions in order > to stop Linux can be declared the day Linux has won. Unfortunately > for us Linux lovers, before Wine can run _all_ the Win32 apps without > _any_ problem (not so close IMHO) and before Linux has a dumb-user GUI > that really hides all the incredible (for the average Windows user) > Unix complexities from the majority of the user base it doesn't have > a chance of world domination, not even in the enterprise servers > low-end space. Does this need to be some kind of project then? (Not that I haven't thought of this already). I realize the KDE and Gnome people are out and making fairly decent ground on the WM problem, but maybe this type of effort should go deeper into the kernel, kinda like BeOS or Rhapsody... These are UN*X like oses that are trying to cater to the "I don't give a shit" crowd of users who don't want to learn anything too indepth about there computers or who don't have time to deal with stuff because there trying to work on higher level problems (many academic people, etc.). What would it take to come up with a Linux distribution in this sort of flavor that could still use kernel patches and old legacy apps, but also might have a more standarized GUI/development environment. All this of course still with a GPL/FreeSoftware attitude... I know Linus talked about the usability of linux in atlanta this past summer, so your average joe wouldn't have to deal with such a steep learning curve, compared to MacOS and Windows... > Excellent and valid point. Note that there are new forces on the > rise which directly clash with Intel interests. I'm refering to > both the existing National-Semiconductor + Cyrix merger and AMD, > and to the (about 9 at last count) startups working on x86 compatible > designs. The next few years will be interesting and Intel might very > probably not emerge as the winner. On these lines what about the stuff that Digital is now doing with Intel. Digital has been pretty good to the linux community... maybe thats our "in". > > -- > Peace, Ariel > --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 15:04:10 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA557153 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:04:10 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA03765 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:03:49 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA03754 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:03:47 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA20248 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:03:45 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11664; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:32:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: cypher To: Mike Acar cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: <199712052132.NAA22370@sgi.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3300 Lines: 65 > Snip: Linus works for Transmeta, which Microsoft might buy in order to > "acquire" Linux. Legal or not, the legal fight might hamper Linux's spread > well enough to significantly reduce the threat to NT. Isn't this the point where anarchy ensues? Think of it this way: How many linux boxes are out there. Basically for every linux box out there we have a backup of the code. If the M$ people got legal rights to Linux they couldn't possibly enforce a NDA agreement on the most current version of Linux. So then there would be MS Linux product line, and we would still keep developing Linux, at worst witha different name. Not that this wouldn't piss us off, but we would overcome and continue... right! So, the point is that Linux has this subtlety about it that it can't ever really die. It's sort of taken on it's own life. --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 > > This isn't a particularly big worry to me. The GPL aside, Linus's contract with > Transmeta almost definitely states specifically that Transmeta has no rights at > all to software Linus wrote before he was employed there; similarly, it almost > definitely excludes rights to software Linus writes on his own time. Further, > I'm not sure how much of the kernel Linus actually "owns" anymore; my > understanding (flawed it may be) is that he's primarily coordinating kernel > release and design, and not actually writing nearly as much code as he did. If > this is the case, Linus himself might not be able to claim ownership of the > kernel anymore. > > Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I speak from a position of significant > ignorance; handfuls of salt all round. But I really don't think that MS is going > to be able to use intellectual property to attack Linux. > > What does worry me, however, is that Intel, MS and others are making significant > progress in taking control of the PC architecture. With the patented Slot-One > and Slot-Two, Intel is putting serious pressure on its competitors in the > motherboard markets; between Slot-One, Slot-Two, and buying the Alpha, I expect > the threat to Intel's dominance of the PC CPU market to virtually disappear. > The I2O SIG will control access to the hardware docs on the next generation of > fast PCs, and the licensing terms - let alone the SIG member's veto power over > membership applicants - are in fundamental conflict with Linux and the other > free PC Unices. Microsoft might not need to try to crush Linux directly; there's > a distinct possibility that Linux simply won't run on the next generation of > PCs. > > But maybe that's just my negativity speaking. I doubt that even a large part of > the PC industry would like to see the architecture grow proprietary; perhaps SGI > could lead the way in providing a design for a new PC-class architecture which > is Open Hardware compliant/approved. > > Along those lines, are there any plans for providing Linux drivers for the > Wintel hardware SGI's announced for next summer? > -- > Mike Acar - mike@contract.kent.edu - "This autumn is sad beyond belief." - Kafka > From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 15:47:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA557651 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:47:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA06844 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:40:43 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA06832; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:40:34 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA25576; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:40:31 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-18.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.18]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14589; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:39:54 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25686; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:35:46 +0100 Message-ID: <19971207003544.28823@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:35:44 +0100 To: cypher Cc: Ariel Faigon , Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario References: <199712052220.OAA60317@oz.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: ; from cypher on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 06:26:41PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 630 Lines: 14 On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 06:26:41PM -0500, cypher wrote: > On these lines what about the stuff that Digital is now doing with Intel. > Digital has been pretty good to the linux community... maybe thats our > "in". Which reminds of a discussion with Jon "Maddog" Hall (introduction superfluous, I guess). He said Linux the best thing of having Linux on the Alpha was that is was actually helping Digital helping to sell more Digital UNIX systems. He explained the effect by users starting with Linux on their Alpha systems but then finding that they're actually in the need of the advanced capabilities of Digital UNIX. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 15:11:36 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA565665 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:11:36 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA04253 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:09:00 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA04239 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:08:54 -0800 Received: from vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (vertigo.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.243.150]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA21645 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:08:52 -0800 env-from (cypher@vertigo.cs.indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (cypher@localhost) by vertigo.cs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11692; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:37:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:37:13 -0500 () From: cypher To: Michael Neuffer cc: Alan Cox , Mike Acar , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 738 Lines: 19 On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Michael Neuffer wrote: > Unfortunately the spec got updated to 2.0 and from my sources I hear > that it is not exactly upwards compatible. > > We will surely be able to break it given time, since somene somewhere > will surly leak it at some point, but time is unfortunately also all that > Billy Boy needs to gain an unfair advantage. Actually, all linux needs to win is for Billy Boy to get enough unfair advantages... then by by Microsoft... ;-) --- Todd M. Shrider Unix Workstation Support Group (812)855-2627 2711 E. 10th Street tshrider@indiana.edu Indiana University, http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/ Bloomington, IN 47408-2671 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 6 16:08:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA562943 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:08:48 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA09319 for linux-list; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:06:21 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA09306 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:06:18 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA29495 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:06:16 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-18.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.18]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19256 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:05:46 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25869; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:01:12 +0100 Message-ID: <19971207010111.01517@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:01:11 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Linux 2.1.67 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 202 Lines: 9 Hi all, I just checked 2.1.67 into the CVS in a desparate attempt to catch up with Linus. Haven't tested it on anything but an Indy but was so far looking good. Four patches to go, banzai... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Dec 7 10:33:10 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA593124 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:33:10 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA06311 for linux-list; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:30:12 -0800 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA06306 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:30:10 -0800 Received: from detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/930416.SGI) id NAA26291; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:29:42 -0500 Message-ID: <348AEA56.46590434@detroit.sgi.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:26:30 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chad Campbell CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: M$ 's strategy against Linux: nightmare scenario References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 999 Lines: 25 Chad Campbell wrote: > > > Bid price 64MB ram, 2GB disk, 19-20" monitor, R4k - $500.00 > If it'll run Linux, I'll give that much too, maybe a little more. That > bid seems real low to me though, so if it was a joke, I'll be a stupid > little undergrad now and go sit in my corner. :) > > Chad It won't run Linux yet, but an R4k will run IRIX 6.5 when its released, and is therefore, still a useful system. If its an R3k, it isn't worth that much unless you want the monitor (which is probably 80% of that bid) -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Vox:(810) 848-4455 39001 West 12mile Road Fax:(810)848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- http://bs.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=Eric+A.+Kimminau&fingerprint=on From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Dec 7 21:40:31 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id VAA645125 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:40:31 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA20925 for linux-list; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:35:56 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA20916 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:35:52 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id VAA24965 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:35:51 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-22.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03779 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:34:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01824; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:26:54 +0100 Message-ID: <19971208062654.17859@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:26:54 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: New signal stuff for 2.1.68 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 330 Lines: 9 Hi all, the new new signal stuff for Linux 2.1.68 is looking fairly nice. In retrospecive I did the right thing when I redid the signal stuff in a mostly IRIX compatible way somewhen back in history. I think we'll be able to get rid of most of the special signal handling stuff for the IRIX binary compatibility stuff. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 8 06:09:06 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA670274 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:09:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA28295 for linux-list; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:06:56 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA28281 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:06:44 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA17216 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:06:39 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from brian.uni-koblenz.de (ralf@brian [141.26.4.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA01954 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:06:05 +0100 (MET) Received: by brian.uni-koblenz.de (4.1/KO-2.0) id AA19161; Mon, 8 Dec 97 15:06:03 +0100 Message-Id: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:06:02 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Uploads ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 678 Lines: 22 Just as announced I've started uploading all the toys I've been working on to Linus. Right now all the RPMs (about 134mb) and all the source RPMs are online. I had to modify a couple of the source RPMs. The most common bug was trying to link with libbsd.a from Linux-libc which of course is missing on our glibc-only system. I've also uploaded a linux 2.1.67 kernel binary to Linus. Still missing: - sh-utils (bug in the Redhat sources) - binutils (gcc dies during compile) - X - libc I'll pump at least the last two items up tomorrow; the other items will need some work. Ok, and with this upload ``Mustang'' is history for me. Let's go for Redhat 5.0 ... Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 8 06:58:18 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA676678 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:58:18 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA04893 for linux-list; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:55:13 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA04866 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:54:20 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net ([163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA26705 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:54:18 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA21190; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:53:17 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xf4dp-0005FtC; Mon, 8 Dec 97 14:58 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Uploads ... To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de (Ralf Baechle) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:58:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> from "Ralf Baechle" at Dec 8, 97 03:06:02 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 83 Lines: 6 > - binutils (gcc dies during compile) Build without gcc -O and it builds Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 8 07:17:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA679909 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:17:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA10554 for linux-list; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:13:18 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA10544 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:13:08 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA01381 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:13:05 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06984; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:12:36 +0100 (MET) Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id QAA21744; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:12:35 +0100 Message-ID: <19971208161234.55761@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:12:34 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Alan Cox Cc: Ralf Baechle , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Alan Cox on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 02:58:36PM +0000 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 341 Lines: 10 On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 02:58:36PM +0000, Alan Cox wrote: > > - binutils (gcc dies during compile) > > Build without gcc -O and it builds Removing the 64bit targets from the binutils' configuration is probably preferable as it will make the binutils quite a bit faster. Nevertheless I want this bug to be fixed - GCC 2.8 or not. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 8 22:07:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA740889 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:07:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA28959 for linux-list; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:06:14 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA28945 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:06:09 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA17003 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:06:07 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA08489; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:03:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: Ralf Baechle cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... In-Reply-To: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 782 Lines: 23 On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Ralf Baechle wrote: > Just as announced I've started uploading all the toys I've been working > on to Linus. Right now all the RPMs (about 134mb) and all the source RPMs Yay! > are online. I had to modify a couple of the source RPMs. The most > common bug was trying to link with libbsd.a from Linux-libc which of > course is missing on our glibc-only system. What is the replacement for libbsd.a, for future reference? > I've also uploaded a linux 2.1.67 kernel binary to Linus. I will try it tomorrow. I installed a load of RPM's, and had to install with a --nodeps since I don't have the glibc RPM. As well, loads of stuff crashed. I know this is because of me missing a modern version of libc, so I'm really looking for the libc release. - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 9 00:14:21 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id AAA749251 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:14:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA20032 for linux-list; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:13:43 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA20009 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:13:39 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id AAA17580 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:13:36 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-15.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.15]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18027 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:13:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by lappi.waldorf-gmbh.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00855; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:42:26 +0100 Message-ID: <19971209084226.22079@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:42:26 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 01:03:18AM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 446 Lines: 12 On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 01:03:18AM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > > are online. I had to modify a couple of the source RPMs. The most > > common bug was trying to link with libbsd.a from Linux-libc which of > > course is missing on our glibc-only system. > > What is the replacement for libbsd.a, for future reference? You don't need to link with a special library, just #define _BSD_SOURCE, for example with the option -D_BSD_SOURCE. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 9 16:38:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA798530 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:38:32 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA13240 for linux-list; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:36:23 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA13216 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:36:16 -0800 Received: from mdhill.interlog.com (mdhill.interlog.com [199.212.154.112]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA16815 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:36:13 -0800 env-from (mike@mdhill.interlog.com) Received: (from mike@localhost) by mdhill.interlog.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA03118; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:34:23 -0500 From: "Michael Hill" Message-Id: <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:34:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: Ralf Baechle "Uploads ..." (Dec 8, 3:06pm) References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Ralf Baechle Subject: Re: Uploads ... Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 413 Lines: 17 Hi Ralf, Thanks for the kernel binary. Unfortunately it quits in the same spot as the previous kernel I tried (the R4600 V2.0 problem). You said you had a stable kernel on the SNI RM200. This time I used the Indy kernel; should I try the rm200 kernel? If I were to get my Indy back on support would they replace the CPU because of this? Regards, Mike -- Michael Hill Toronto, Canada mdhill@interlog.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 9 19:07:34 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA841879 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:07:34 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA29263 for linux-list; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:56 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA29201 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:49 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA22330 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:45 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-05.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.5]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA01278 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:05:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03299; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:02:10 +0100 Message-ID: <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:02:10 +0100 To: Michael Hill Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com>; from Michael Hill on Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 07:34:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 643 Lines: 19 On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 07:34:21PM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > Thanks for the kernel binary. Unfortunately it quits in the same spot as the > previous kernel I tried (the R4600 V2.0 problem). You said you had a stable > kernel on the SNI RM200. This time I used the Indy kernel; should I try the > rm200 kernel? If your have a RM200 ... Is it still that bus error message you get? If so, could you please mail me the register dump displayed on the screen. > If I were to get my Indy back on support would they replace the > CPU because of this? No, because that problem can be handled in the OS software and > 2.1.57 do so. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 10 05:37:54 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id FAA943758 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:37:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id FAA29775 for linux-list; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:36:09 -0800 Received: from meteor.nsg.sgi.com (meteor.nsg.sgi.com [134.14.162.53]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id FAA29729 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:36:04 -0800 Received: (from hakamada@localhost) by meteor.nsg.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA09888; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:35:39 +0900 Message-Id: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Mount ext2 filesystem. X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on XEmacs 20.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:35:39 +0900 From: Takeshi Hakamada Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1138 Lines: 30 Hi all, I'm working on my R5000 Indy can mount second disk as root filesystem. I've created ext2 filesystem from my i486-based Linux box and I connected it to my Indy as the second drive. Then I booted vmlinux-indy-2.1.67 (made by Ralf) from the first disk on my Indy, mounted nfs-root filesystem which is made by Ralf I know. I can mount both the first disk(efs) and the second one(ext2). However, when I try to invoke rpm which is made by Alan(libc/ld workaround version), I get efs read error as follows: efs: read error in indirect extents attempt to access beyond end of device 08:01 rw=0, want=1207011792, limit=1965937 Do you think something wrong with my IRIX efs partition? When I mount IRIX root partition, I can invoke some IRIX command(like ls, cp). Anyway, why root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesn't contain rpm binary? I think rpm binary should be in root-be-0.00.cpio.gz. Thanks, -- Takeshi Hakamada Nihon Silicon Graphics Cray E-mail: hakamada@nsg.sgi.com, URL: http://reality.sgi.com/hakamada_nsg/ Phone: +81-45-682-3712, Fax: +81-45-682-0856 Voice mail: (internal)822-1300, (external)+81-3-5488-1863-1300 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 10 08:50:22 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA949451 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:50:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA05569 for linux-list; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:47:34 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA05510 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:47:31 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA24721 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:47:27 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03531; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:43:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:43:03 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: Takeshi Hakamada cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. In-Reply-To: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1714 Lines: 42 On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Takeshi Hakamada wrote: > I'm working on my R5000 Indy can mount second disk as root filesystem. > I've created ext2 filesystem from my i486-based Linux box and I connected > it to my Indy as the second drive. Then I booted vmlinux-indy-2.1.67 > (made by Ralf) from the first disk on my Indy, mounted nfs-root filesystem > which is made by Ralf I know. > I can mount both the first disk(efs) and the second one(ext2). > > However, when I try to invoke rpm which is made by Alan(libc/ld workaround > version), I get efs read error as follows: > efs: read error in indirect extents > attempt to access beyond end of device > 08:01 rw=0, want=1207011792, limit=1965937 That looks like a problem with the EFS driver that Mike put in. I'm not quite sure wher the problem is, but I get all sort of problems with EFS myself. I'm busy with other things. Actually, I just tried it, and with Ralf's latest kernel I got: EFS: magic 0X1 doesn't match 0X72959 or 0X7295A! EFS: failed checking Superblock Unable to handle paging request at virtual address 00000000, epc == 88057ab0, ra == 8808bbe8 ... and then a complete hang. > Do you think something wrong with my IRIX efs partition? When I mount > IRIX root partition, I can invoke some IRIX command(like ls, cp). I would trust Irix a lot more to handle EFS partitions than the current Linux kernels. > Anyway, why root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesn't contain rpm binary? > I think rpm binary should be in root-be-0.00.cpio.gz. root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesnt' contain RPM because it's version 0.00, and at that point nobody had any RPM's to use. It will, though. I'll work on root-be-0.01.tar.gz when I get a working libc (nudge, nudge...) - Alex From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 10 09:08:37 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA944291 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:08:36 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA12537 for linux-list; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:06:08 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA12448 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:05:55 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA29810 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:05:51 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (dali.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.5.1]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14228 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:05:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00500; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:02:29 +0100 Message-ID: <19971210180229.20549@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:02:29 +0100 To: Takeshi Hakamada Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. References: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com>; from Takeshi Hakamada on Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 10:35:39PM +0900 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1317 Lines: 31 On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 10:35:39PM +0900, Takeshi Hakamada wrote: > I'm working on my R5000 Indy can mount second disk as root filesystem. > I've created ext2 filesystem from my i486-based Linux box and I connected > it to my Indy as the second drive. Then I booted vmlinux-indy-2.1.67 > (made by Ralf) from the first disk on my Indy, mounted nfs-root filesystem > which is made by Ralf I know. > I can mount both the first disk(efs) and the second one(ext2). > > However, when I try to invoke rpm which is made by Alan(libc/ld workaround > version), I get efs read error as follows: > > efs: read error in indirect extents > attempt to access beyond end of device > 08:01 rw=0, want=1207011792, limit=1965937 > > Do you think something wrong with my IRIX efs partition? When I mount > IRIX root partition, I can invoke some IRIX command(like ls, cp). The efs filesystem for Linux is completly broken. If you want to transfer files from IRIX to Linux I recommend something like NFS or ftp to another machine. > Anyway, why root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesn't contain rpm binary? > I think rpm binary should be in root-be-0.00.cpio.gz. The archive was the first collection of binaries ever. It isn't really intended to be a real distribution. Someone else promised to work on an installation procedure rsn. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 10 09:16:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA953664 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA16242 for linux-list; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:15:11 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA16196 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:15:06 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id JAA02959 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:14:54 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (dali.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.5.1]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14437 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:14:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00522; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:11:07 +0100 Message-ID: <19971210181107.60370@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:11:07 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: Takeshi Hakamada , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. References: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 11:43:03AM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 363 Lines: 9 On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 11:43:03AM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesnt' contain RPM because it's version 0.00, and at > that point nobody had any RPM's to use. It will, though. I'll work on > root-be-0.01.tar.gz when I get a working libc (nudge, nudge...) /pub/mips-linux/libc-2.0.4.tar.gz, and oh - keep your firstborn handy ;-) Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 10 14:40:41 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA981619 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:40:41 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA10564 for linux-list; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:38:59 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA10558 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:38:56 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id OAA14005 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:37:57 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA09694; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:36:50 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xfuql-0005FsC; Wed, 10 Dec 97 22:43 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. To: hakamada@meteor.nsg.sgi.com (Takeshi Hakamada) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:43:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712101335.WAA09888@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> from "Takeshi Hakamada" at Dec 10, 97 10:35:39 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1304 Lines: 33 > However, when I try to invoke rpm which is made by Alan(libc/ld workaround > version), I get efs read error as follows: > > efs: read error in indirect extents > attempt to access beyond end of device > 08:01 rw=0, want=1207011792, limit=1965937 The efs driver is still very limited and cant handle many file layouts. > Anyway, why root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesn't contain rpm binary? > I think rpm binary should be in root-be-0.00.cpio.gz. Personally I'd like to see a lot less in a final root-be-0.00. Really it needs some minimal disk handling tools and rpm. The root-be is a good start for an NFS root right now. I used the installer stuff I did to get rpm on the disk by doing on Linux x86 rpm2cpio rpm-2.3.11.mips.rpm >rpm.cpio ftping it to Irix and using the install cpio option. Ive been poking at better installing and talked to a few people about Arc firmware after Ralf prodded me. Given the horror stories told I think the better option is to finish producing a tool that takes a compressed ramdisk image (the initrd image) that is used by setups like the redhat installer and merges it with the kernel image so the existing bootup stuff can load it The X86 has memory space problems (install in 8Mb), on the indy blowing 4Mbytes on the install ramdisk is almost an irrelevance. Alan From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 04:24:24 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA1052144 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:24:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA14069 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:22:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA14059 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:22:37 -0800 Received: from hawkweed.bri.st.com (hawkweed.bri.st.com [192.26.234.4]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id EAA02897 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:22:35 -0800 env-from (rji@bristol.st.com) Received: from thistle.inmos.co.uk [138.198.1.7] by hawkweed.bri.st.com with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xg7c4-0005I5-00; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:21:08 +0000 Received: from panther [138.198.35.30] by thistle.inmos.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xg7cY-00061x-00; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:21:38 +0000 Received: from rji by panther with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xg7cY-00061p-00; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:21:38 +0000 From: Richard Ingram Message-Id: <9712111221.ZM23175@bristol.st.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:21:37 +0000 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Monitor for Mips 4000PC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 798 Lines: 23 Hi, Over Xmas I want to fire up my Mips 4000PC with the standard graphics card, I have a Sun/Sony Trinitron 19" colour fixed freq monitor with the 13w3 connector on it, can this be used with the Mips graphics card ? Or will I have to use my 14" multisync ? Also for instally NT what do I need ? I have the NT CD-Rom and that is it, do I need to make a boot floppy ? If so what do I put on it ? After NT is up and running I hope to get Linux/Mips on the box, I have just ordered RH5 for my Dual PPro box to act as my crossdev platform. Also the Mips box power supply does not seem to have a Switch for 110-220Volt, does that mean it is a hardwired 110 power supply or auto sensing (I need 220v)? Or is it just that the switch is hidden away in the chassis ? Thanks for any info Richard. -- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 07:57:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA1084951 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:57:50 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA19148 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:56:47 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA19132 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:56:43 -0800 Received: from comsoon.login.net ([192.219.254.5]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id HAA14430 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:56:40 -0800 env-from (jalonso@linguini.kaydara.com) Received: (uucp@localhost) by comsoon.login.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with UUCP id KAA08392; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:12:33 -0500 Received: from capellini-ii (capellini.kaydara.com [192.0.2.25]) by linguini.kaydara.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA26651; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:07:45 -0500 Message-ID: <348FFDBF.EE8@kaydara.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:50:39 -0500 From: Joe Alonso Reply-To: jalonso@kaydara.com Organization: Kaydara X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, ewt@redhat.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Announce: New uploads References: <19971210151448.23359@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1286 Lines: 44 Pardon my ignorance, but... I have a couple of questions; is there a how-to document that outlines how to load linux on an sgi? is the Indigo Elan (r4000) supported? I'm not sure how to initialize a loading of linux on the sgi. Here's what I've assumed: - bring over the src's to the sgi - compile a basic system (under irix) - copy over the original irix kernel with the new linux kernel - re-boot The begging questions: The FS are not compatible, therefore a new mkfs has to be done on the (root) partitions. This just doesn't "sound" right to me. What am I overlooking? ja Ralf Baechle wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hi all, > > ok, here are the toys I promised to upload to ftp.linux.sgi.com: > > - tons of srpms some of which have been modified compared to RedHat's > original versions for the ``Mustang'' release and big endian binaries. > - tarballs of libc binaries. > - srpms and both big and little endian binaries of an updated binutils > package. > - a tarball with big endian binaries of XFree 3.3.1. > - kernel binaries for the Indy and RM200. The RM200 kernel has the support > for a couple of other little endian machines in it but I didn't test. > > All in all this is around 350mb. > > Have fun leeching, > > Ralf > From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 10:24:00 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA1095097 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:24:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA11156 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:57 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA11073; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:50 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (971110.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA13893; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:49 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712111821.KAA13893@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Announce: New uploads To: jalonso@kaydara.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:21:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI/Linux mailing list) In-Reply-To: <348FFDBF.EE8@kaydara.com> from "Joe Alonso" at Dec 11, 97 09:50:39 am Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1145 Lines: 46 : :Pardon my ignorance, but... :I have a couple of questions; :is there a how-to document that outlines how to load linux on an sgi? : We are waiting for someone to write this. You may get all the info by reading: http://reality.sgi.com/ariel/linux.gz (an archive of this mailing list). The problem is that it is way too long in this form. :is the Indigo Elan (r4000) supported? : Unfortunately, no. :I'm not sure how to initialize a loading of linux on the sgi. :Here's what I've assumed: :- bring over the src's to the sgi :- compile a basic system (under irix) :- copy over the original irix kernel with the new linux kernel :- re-boot : :The begging questions: :The FS are not compatible, therefore a new mkfs has to be done on the :(root) partitions. :This just doesn't "sound" right to me. :What am I overlooking? : You should be either: 1) boot via bootp (/vmlinux on a remote filesystem) and mount stuff via NFS. 2) Go through a complex and not well documented way of creating an ext2fs filesystem on your Indy (better get an additional disk) copy the kernel and root to that system and reboot. -- Peace, Ariel From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 14:09:09 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA1116335 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:09:09 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA21462 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:07:11 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA21334 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:06:49 -0800 Received: from otto.artcom.de (schleuse-inx-bt.artcom.de [195.21.176.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id OAA29777 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:06:45 -0800 env-from (NOSPAMkaro@artcom.net) Received: from artcom.net by otto.artcom.de with smtp id m0xgGhy-009tQ7C; Thu, 11 Dec 97 23:03 MET Message-ID: <34906346.C1FB7311@artcom.net> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:03:50 +0100 From: Benjamin Pannier Reply-To: karo@artcom.net Organization: ART+COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1520 Lines: 47 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 07:34:21PM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > > > Thanks for the kernel binary. Unfortunately it quits in the same spot as the > > previous kernel I tried (the R4600 V2.0 problem). You said you had a stable > > kernel on the SNI RM200. This time I used the Indy kernel; should I try the > > rm200 kernel? > > If your have a RM200 ... > > Is it still that bus error message you get? If so, could you please mail > me the register dump displayed on the screen. vmlinux-indy-2.1.67: ARCH: SGI-IP22 CPU: MIPS-4600 FPU ICACHE DCACHE Loading R4000 MMU routines CPU revision is: 00002020 ... Stating kswapd v1.23 SGI Zilog8530 serialdriver V1.00 tty00 at 0xbfbd9838 (irq = 21) is Zilog8530 tty01 at 0xbfbd9830 (irq = 21) is Zilog8530 loop: registered device at major 7 Got a bus error IRQ, shouldn't ... $0 : 00000000 1000fc01 88130000 00000000 $4 : 88174274 8812cb10 8fff1cd8 00000001 $8 : 1000fc03 00000201 0000ffe5 8813de68 $12: 00000001 00000001 00000001 fffffffc $16: 0000c000 8ffe5000 00000000 00000000 $20: a8747330 9fc47a40 00000000 9fc47a40 $24: 1000fc01 0000000f $2: 00000000 8fff1cb8 9fc47bac 8800b0e8 epc: 880359f8 status: 1000fc03 cause: 00004000 Spinning... -karo -- __/__/__/\ Benjamin Pannier,ART+COM GmbH,BudapesterStr44,D-10787Berlin __/__/__/\/ Tel:(+49-30)25417-3 Fax:(+49-30)25417-555 __/__/__/\/ Email:karo@artcom.net WWW:http://www.artcom.net/~karo/ __\__\__\/ Email:karo@artcom.org me@karo.org i.am@ka.ro karo@artcom.de From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 16:37:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA1140317 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:37:03 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA22463 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:35:04 -0800 Received: from meteor.nsg.sgi.com (meteor.nsg.sgi.com [134.14.162.53]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA22438 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:34:57 -0800 Received: (from hakamada@localhost) by meteor.nsg.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA05477; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:30:15 +0900 Message-Id: <199712120030.JAA05477@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> To: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:43:26 +0000 (GMT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on XEmacs 20.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:30:15 +0900 From: Takeshi Hakamada Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1876 Lines: 47 > > However, when I try to invoke rpm which is made by Alan(libc/ld workaround > > version), I get efs read error as follows: > > > > efs: read error in indirect extents > > attempt to access beyond end of device > > 08:01 rw=0, want=1207011792, limit=1965937 > > The efs driver is still very limited and cant handle many file layouts. Okay. > > Anyway, why root-be-0.00.cpio.gz doesn't contain rpm binary? > > I think rpm binary should be in root-be-0.00.cpio.gz. > > Personally I'd like to see a lot less in a final root-be-0.00. Really it > needs some minimal disk handling tools and rpm. The root-be is a good > start for an NFS root right now. > > I used the installer stuff I did to get rpm on the disk by doing > > on Linux x86 > > rpm2cpio rpm-2.3.11.mips.rpm >rpm.cpio Thank you. I've converted rpm to cpio and I could have installed rpm binary. But, I can't boot from local disk yet. If I can boot from local disk, I'd like to update faq on the www.linux.sgi.com. How do you think about it? > ftping it to Irix and using the install cpio option. Ive been poking at > better installing and talked to a few people about Arc firmware after Ralf > prodded me. Given the horror stories told I think the better option is > to finish producing a tool that takes a compressed ramdisk image (the initrd > image) that is used by setups like the redhat installer and merges it with > the kernel image so the existing bootup stuff can load it > > The X86 has memory space problems (install in 8Mb), on the indy blowing > 4Mbytes on the install ramdisk is almost an irrelevance. Yes, when I installed RedHat4.2 on my poor note PC(8MBytes), it bothered me. Cheers, -- Takeshi Hakamada Nihon Silicon Graphics Cray E-mail: hakamada@nsg.sgi.com, URL: http://reality.sgi.com/hakamada_nsg/ Voice mail: (internal)822-1300, (external)+81-3-5488-1863-1300 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 17:06:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA1150698 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:06:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA06435 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:05:25 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA06360 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:05:15 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id RAA22691 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:05:11 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id BAA03765; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:04:40 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xgJdw-0005FsC; Fri, 12 Dec 97 01:11 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. To: hakamada@meteor.nsg.sgi.com (Takeshi Hakamada) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:11:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <199712120030.JAA05477@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> from "Takeshi Hakamada" at Dec 12, 97 09:30:15 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 423 Lines: 12 > Thank you. I've converted rpm to cpio and I could have installed rpm binary. > But, I can't boot from local disk yet. If I can boot from local disk, I'd > like to update faq on the www.linux.sgi.com. How do you think about it? In irix, shutdown, restart hit the maintenance button to get to the arc menu, hit command line and do I think its boot /whatever/efs/vmlinux root=/dev/sdb1 (first partition disk 2 as root) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 17:27:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id RAA1133405 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:27:42 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA13066 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:24:31 -0800 Received: from meteor.nsg.sgi.com (meteor.nsg.sgi.com [134.14.162.53]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id RAA12479 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:22:02 -0800 Received: (from hakamada@localhost) by meteor.nsg.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA05559; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:16:53 +0900 Message-Id: <199712120116.KAA05559@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> To: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:11:51 +0000 (GMT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on XEmacs 20.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:16:53 +0900 From: Takeshi Hakamada Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 880 Lines: 22 > > Thank you. I've converted rpm to cpio and I could have installed rpm binary. > > But, I can't boot from local disk yet. If I can boot from local disk, I'd > > like to update faq on the www.linux.sgi.com. How do you think about it? > > In irix, shutdown, restart hit the maintenance button to get to the arc > menu, hit command line and do I think its > > boot /whatever/efs/vmlinux root=/dev/sdb1 > > (first partition disk 2 as root) I know this method, my want to boot from local disk is, I've not installed all rpm packages on the second disk. I'll do this until tomorrow. Do you think anyone wants my installation howto? -- Takeshi Hakamada Nihon Silicon Graphics Cray E-mail: hakamada@nsg.sgi.com, URL: http://reality.sgi.com/hakamada_nsg/ Phone: +81-45-682-3712, Fax: +81-45-682-0856 Voice mail: (internal)822-1300, (external)+81-3-5488-1863-1300 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 19:10:19 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA1169637 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:10:18 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA11054 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:10 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA11033 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:08 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA21955 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:05 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-09.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.9]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24067 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:08:34 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03326; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:42:09 +0100 Message-ID: <19971212024209.20676@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:42:09 +0100 To: karo@artcom.net, mike@mdhill.interlog.com Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Uploads ... References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> <34906346.C1FB7311@artcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <34906346.C1FB7311@artcom.net>; from Benjamin Pannier on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:03:50PM +0100 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 894 Lines: 22 On Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:03:50PM +0100, Benjamin Pannier wrote: > tty01 at 0xbfbd9830 (irq = 21) is Zilog8530 > loop: registered device at major 7 > Got a bus error IRQ, shouldn't ... Bad, the two register dumps you and Mike mailed don't make very much sense; the epc register is pointer to completly different routines. What both reports have in common is that the kernel dies after the initialisation of the loop device. The loop driver is actually ``harmless'' as it has no SGI specific code. The next driver to be initialized would be the SCSI driver, so the problem is there. This and the useless epc values might indicate a problem with the hpc dma. I wonder if the DMA engine in the HPC might still be active? I'm going to try to solve the problem by starring at the source. If this doesn't help, could you guys please run a special debug kernel that I'll make for you? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 19:10:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA1169414 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA11076 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:12 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA11050 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:10 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA21964 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:09:08 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-09.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.9]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24064 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:08:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03374; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:34:48 +0100 Message-ID: <19971212033448.01867@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:34:48 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Indy crash during bootup References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> <9712110612.ZM1219@mdhill.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <9712110612.ZM1219@mdhill.interlog.com>; from Michael Hill on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:12:24AM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1455 Lines: 35 On Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 06:12:24AM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > Got a bus error IRQ, shouldn't happen yet > $0 : 00000000 00000000 0007c000 8007d000 > $4 : 00000080 89f7d000 1000fc01 8007cfe0 > $8 : 80000000 00000000 00009f7c 8813de68 > $12: 00000001 00000001 00000001 fffffffc > $16: 09f7c000 89f7c000 00000000 00000000 > $20: a87ffc20 a8746d60 9fc556d4 00000000 > $24: 1000fc01 0000000f > $28: eb3b6f7f 89f81d90 00000001 880f2890 > epc : 88026918 > Status: 1000fc03 > Cause : 00004000 > Spinning... Ok, I did some further analysis. Dissassembling shows that Benjamin's report doesn't really contain useful data. His machine took the bus error interrupt while processing some other exception. Michael's machine took the bus error at the end of r4k_flush_page_to_ram_d32i32_r4600() which is being called during sgiwd33.c:sgiwd93_detect().c. Since the R4600 v2.0 is running rocksolid - my RM200 is up for over two weeks - the problem seems to be in the SGI specific code in the function that handles the Indy style l2 caches. Hmm... I just noticed in Benjamin's startup messages that his machine doesn't print a message (``Enabling R4600 SCACHE'') about activating the second level cache. I bet both your and Benjamin's machines don't have second level caches. Could you check the hinv output, please? William: would an attempt to manipulate the R4600 second level cache on a Indy without such a cache result in a bus error interrupt? Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 18:55:42 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA1163237 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:55:42 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA08034 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:54:37 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA08011 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:54:34 -0800 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id SAA18322 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:53:53 -0800 env-from (andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au) Received: From dizzy With LocalMail ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:53:21 +1100 From: "Andrew O'Brien" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:52:48 +0000 (GMT) X-Sender: andrewo@dizzy.disy.cse.unsw.EDU.AU Reply-To: andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. In-Reply-To: <199712120116.KAA05559@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1812 Lines: 43 On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Takeshi Hakamada wrote: > > > > Thank you. I've converted rpm to cpio and I could have installed rpm binary. > > > But, I can't boot from local disk yet. If I can boot from local disk, I'd > > > like to update faq on the www.linux.sgi.com. How do you think about it? > > > > In irix, shutdown, restart hit the maintenance button to get to the arc > > menu, hit command line and do I think its > > > > boot /whatever/efs/vmlinux root=/dev/sdb1 > > > > (first partition disk 2 as root) > > I know this method, my want to boot from local disk is, I've not installed > all rpm packages on the second disk. I'll do this until tomorrow. > Do you think anyone wants my installation howto? Yep ! I'm a student at The University of NSW, Australia and over this summer (yes it's summer now ;) I'll be undertaking to port Linux to a specialised board developed here, which uses a R4{6,7}00 chip. As a warmup exercise, as I've been given access to an Indy and brought in my home Linux x86 box as a bootserver, I'll try and install SGI/Linux. The only prob is that I've never used/played with an SGI before and so would appreciate a slightly more comprehensive howto then the FAQ. I've been lurking in the background the last few days and this seems like an appropriate time to say "Hi". Any hints or tips anyone could send me would be much appreciated. Thanks ___________________________________________________________________ / Andrew O'Brien andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au bbq@mindless.com \ / Student, Faculty of CSE http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~andrewo \ > UNSW, Australia President COMPSOC http://www/~compsoc < \ BE (Comp)/BA (Psych) Student Representative stu-reps@cse.. / \___ "finger -l andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au" for my current location ___/ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 19:15:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA1138156 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA12389 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:33 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA12374; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:31 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA27978; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199712120315.TAA27978@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Indy crash during bootup In-Reply-To: <19971212033448.01867@uni-koblenz.de> References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> <9712110612.ZM1219@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971212033448.01867@uni-koblenz.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 687 Lines: 13 ralf@uni-koblenz.de writes: ... > William: would an attempt to manipulate the R4600 second level cache on > a Indy without such a cache result in a bus error interrupt? ... Yes. The memory address of the cache controller will not exist. Avoid referencing it when the cache is not configured. If the kernel is not reading the cache configuration from the CPU module EEPROM, then it should test for the existence of the cache controller by referencing it within some sort of exception trap which returns control gracefully with an error indication if a bus error occurs. Note that you might get a bus error exception (on a read) rather than a bus error interrupt (on a write). From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 11 19:46:12 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id TAA1159992 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:46:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA16374 for linux-list; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:45:47 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA16369; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:45:45 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id TAA28524; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:45:42 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-09.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.9]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25059; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:45:10 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03725; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:42:07 +0100 Message-ID: <19971212044207.36704@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:42:07 +0100 To: "William J. Earl" Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Indy crash during bootup References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> <9712110612.ZM1219@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971212033448.01867@uni-koblenz.de> <199712120315.TAA27978@fir.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712120315.TAA27978@fir.engr.sgi.com>; from William J. Earl on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 07:15:22PM -0800 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1361 Lines: 30 On Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 07:15:22PM -0800, William J. Earl wrote: > ralf@uni-koblenz.de writes: > ... > > William: would an attempt to manipulate the R4600 second level cache on > > a Indy without such a cache result in a bus error interrupt? > ... > Yes. The memory address of the cache controller will not exist. Avoid > referencing it when the cache is not configured. If the kernel is not > reading the cache configuration from the CPU module EEPROM, then it should > test for the existence of the cache controller by referencing it within > some sort of exception trap which returns control gracefully with an error > indication if a bus error occurs. Note that you might get a bus error exception > (on a read) rather than a bus error interrupt (on a write). Ok, this prooves that my theories have been correct. In fact the Indy code tries to be intelligent about recognicing a second level cache but fails to get things right when flushing the cache. Assume this bug to be fixed for the next release. There seems to be something else wrong with the cache handling. My R5000 Indy has a second level cache according to hinv but it doesn't show up in the results of lmbench running under Linux. >click click< Indeed, we only activate the second level cache for R4600 machines. I guess the next kernel release will be *faster* :-) Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 01:31:55 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id BAA1174708 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:31:54 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA28697 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:30:01 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA28680 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:29:55 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA28549 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:29:54 -0800 env-from (root@uni-koblenz.de) Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-22.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.22]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07116 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:29:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from root@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04215; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:26:07 +0100 Message-ID: <19971212102607.64599@lappi.waldorf-gmbh.de> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:26:07 +0100 From: root To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: R4000SC/R4400SC crashes ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 654 Lines: 17 Hi all, I think I found the bug causing the reported R4000SC/R4400SC crashes. In r4kcache.h some of the functions for handling the second level caches were using the wrong cacheops. I'm rewriting the thing; the file was producing a huge object file and not able to handle primary instruction and data caches with different linesize. This was a problem with the Vr4300 and some Magnum 4000 and the Olivetti M700 where reconfiguring the linesize of the primary cache isn't advisable. What I won't fix for now is the handling of split instruction and data second level caches a la R4000SC. I don't know of any system using something like this. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 02:08:05 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id CAA1167635 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:08:05 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA05351 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:07:36 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA05344 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:07:30 -0800 Received: from otto.artcom.de (schleuse-inx-bt.artcom.de [195.21.176.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id CAA04833 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:07:28 -0800 env-from (NOSPAMkaro@artcom.net) Received: from artcom.net by otto.artcom.de with smtp id m0xgRxV-00AbvbC; Fri, 12 Dec 97 11:04 MET Message-ID: <34910C34.DFF48AD3@artcom.net> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:04:37 +0100 From: Benjamin Pannier Reply-To: karo@artcom.net Organization: ART+COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Indy crash during bootup References: <19971208150602.52582@brian.uni-koblenz.de> <9712091934.ZM3116@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971210040210.27443@uni-koblenz.de> <9712110612.ZM1219@mdhill.interlog.com> <19971212033448.01867@uni-koblenz.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1260 Lines: 33 ralf@uni-koblenz.de wrote: > Hmm... I just noticed in Benjamin's startup messages that his machine > doesn't print a message (``Enabling R4600 SCACHE'') about activating the > second level cache. I bet both your and Benjamin's machines don't have > second level caches. Could you check the hinv output, please? yes, that's right. That machine do not have a second level chache: Iris Audio Processor: version A2 revision 4.1.0 1 133 MHZ IP22 Processor FPU: MIPS R4600 Floating Point Coprocessor Revision: 2.0 CPU: MIPS R4600 Processor Chip Revision: 2.0 On-board serial ports: 2 On-board bi-directional parallel port Data cache size: 16 Kbytes Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes Main memory size: 128 Mbytes Vino video: unit 0, revision 0, IndyCam connected Integral ISDN: Basic Rate Interface unit 0, revision 1.0 Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1 Integral SCSI controller 0: Version WD33C93B, revision D Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 Graphics board: Indy 24-bit -ben -- __/__/__/\ Benjamin Pannier,ART+COM GmbH,BudapesterStr44,D-10787Berlin __/__/__/\/ Tel:(+49-30)25417-3 Fax:(+49-30)25417-555 __/__/__/\/ Email:karo@artcom.net WWW:http://www.artcom.net/~karo/ __\__\__\/ Email:karo@artcom.org me@karo.org i.am@ka.ro karo@artcom.de From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 06:24:28 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id GAA1176941 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:24:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA28566 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:23:34 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id GAA28556 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:23:32 -0800 Received: from lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (lager.engsoc.carleton.ca [134.117.69.26]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id GAA16791 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:23:29 -0800 env-from (adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca) Received: from localhost (adevries@localhost) by lager.engsoc.carleton.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25541 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:20:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:20:42 -0500 (EST) From: Alex deVries To: SGI Linux Subject: Initrd, bzImage and more. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1411 Lines: 33 Back to the problem of getting initrd working... Here's where I recall leaving off. To use a compressed image, you normally set some kernel flags using rdev or similiar to define the offset of where the compressed image is. Now, there's something like 11 bits available to define this offset. The problem is that on MIPS, vmlinux kernels are considerably larger, so either the 11 bits needs to be larger, or we need to make the kernel smaller. Making the kernel smaller is easily done by making bzImage kernels. When I last looked, there was no way to compile a bzImage kernel. I don't think fixing that would be that tough, but I guess what I don't understand is why bzImage kernels are architecture specific. I confess that I haven't looked at this very closely recently, so correct me where I'm off. Ralf said at one point that we should use the ARC stuff, and that may be a good idea. But, it's not consistent with the other architectures. It'd be nice for SGI/Linux to be installed in the same way that RH does i386/Linux setups. Anyway, I'm not going to have a hell of a lot of time to work on things for the rest of the month as I'm on vacation for two weeks, and I'll be in a different country than my Indy. - A Alex deVries Rent this space for a $5 donation System Administrator to EngSoc per day. The EngSoc Project Send spam to spam@engsoc.carleton.ca. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 07:06:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA1171716 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:06:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA04287 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:05:08 -0800 Received: from dataserv.detroit.sgi.com (dataserv.detroit.sgi.com [169.238.128.2]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA04278 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:05:06 -0800 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com by dataserv.detroit.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/930416.SGI) id KAA08867; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:04:42 -0500 Received: from cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.detroit.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA10464; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:04:39 -0500 Message-ID: <34915286.EF32CC9D@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:04:38 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau Reply-To: eak@detroit.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Takeshi Hakamada CC: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. References: <199712120116.KAA05559@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1540 Lines: 41 YES! :) Takeshi Hakamada wrote: > > > > Thank you. I've converted rpm to cpio and I could have installed rpm binary. > > > But, I can't boot from local disk yet. If I can boot from local disk, I'd > > > like to update faq on the www.linux.sgi.com. How do you think about it? > > > > In irix, shutdown, restart hit the maintenance button to get to the arc > > menu, hit command line and do I think its > > > > boot /whatever/efs/vmlinux root=/dev/sdb1 > > > > (first partition disk 2 as root) > > I know this method, my want to boot from local disk is, I've not installed > all rpm packages on the second disk. I'll do this until tomorrow. > Do you think anyone wants my installation howto? > > -- > Takeshi Hakamada > Nihon Silicon Graphics Cray > E-mail: hakamada@nsg.sgi.com, URL: http://reality.sgi.com/hakamada_nsg/ > Phone: +81-45-682-3712, Fax: +81-45-682-0856 > Voice mail: (internal)822-1300, (external)+81-3-5488-1863-1300 -- Eric Kimminau System Engineer/RSA eak@detroit.sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc Voice: (248) 848-4455 39001 West 12 Mile Rd. Fax: (248) 848-5600 Farmington, MI 48331-2903 VNet Extension - 6-327-4455 "I speak my mind and no one else's." http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/perl-rsa-sig.html When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" "I am the great supportfolio, do you have http?" From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 10:16:30 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA1194245 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:16:30 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA03843 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:11:09 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA03725; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:10:54 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA21606; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:10:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:10:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199712121810.KAA21606@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: root Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: R4000SC/R4400SC crashes ... In-Reply-To: <19971212102607.64599@lappi.waldorf-gmbh.de> References: <19971212102607.64599@lappi.waldorf-gmbh.de> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1123 Lines: 26 root@uni-koblenz.de writes: > Hi all, > > I think I found the bug causing the reported R4000SC/R4400SC crashes. > In r4kcache.h some of the functions for handling the second level caches > were using the wrong cacheops. > > I'm rewriting the thing; the file was producing a huge object file and > not able to handle primary instruction and data caches with different > linesize. This was a problem with the Vr4300 and some Magnum 4000 and > the Olivetti M700 where reconfiguring the linesize of the primary cache > isn't advisable. > > What I won't fix for now is the handling of split instruction and data > second level caches a la R4000SC. I don't know of any system using > something like this. ... I don't know about other vendors, but all MIPS and SGI systems had unified secondary caches. It is indeed the case that reconfiguruing the linesize on the MIPS Magnum systems is not advisable, at least on the older revisions of the memory controller. (Various combinations mostly worked, but only some worked all the time.) As far as I know, all systems shipped were correctly configured. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 11:17:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA1191956 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:17:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA03410 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:39 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA03403 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:38 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA21845; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:38 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: SPECweb for linux? Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 84 Lines: 2 Are there any SPECweb results for linux on one box or another? How about AIM? From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 11:31:49 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA1197012 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:48 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA11000 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:29:38 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA10964; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:29:33 -0800 Received: from dm.cobaltmicro.com ([209.19.61.51]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA11193; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:29:27 -0800 env-from (davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com) Received: (from davem@localhost) by dm.cobaltmicro.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17578; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:24:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:24:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199712121924.LAA17578@dm.cobaltmicro.com> From: "David S. Miller" To: wje@fir.engr.sgi.com CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> (wje@fir.engr.sgi.com) Subject: Re: SPECweb for linux? References: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 412 Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:38 -0800 From: "William J. Earl" Are there any SPECweb results for linux on one box or another? How about AIM? Some time ago I ran SGI's WEBstone benchmark on an old SparcStation10 running Linux 2.0.30 With small pages it was something like 162 connections per second with one client over 100baseT Later, David S. Miller davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 12:07:50 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA1192265 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:07:50 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA28509 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:03:55 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA28461 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:03:47 -0800 Received: from zero.aec.at (zero.aec.at [193.170.192.102]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id MAA20750 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:03:44 -0800 env-from (andi@zero.aec.at) Received: (qmail 23626 invoked by uid 573); 12 Dec 1997 20:03:36 -0000 To: "William J. Earl" Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: SPECweb for linux? References: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: Andi Kleen Date: 12 Dec 1997 21:03:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: "William J. Earl"'s message of Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:15:38 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.41/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 421 Lines: 12 "William J. Earl" writes: > Are there any SPECweb results for linux on one box or another? If you run it with the current sgilinux the results will probably be very bad. The current network code has some performance problems (and bugs) that will be fixed. The network code in 2.0 (especially 2.0.30 and up) is very fast though. That version unfortunately doesn't run on SGI (yet?). -Andi From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 13:46:11 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA790446 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:46:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA05475 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:43:35 -0800 Received: from fir.engr.sgi.com (fir.engr.sgi.com [150.166.49.183]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA05444; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:43:29 -0800 Received: (from wje@localhost) by fir.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA22146; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:43:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:43:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199712122143.NAA22146@fir.engr.sgi.com> From: "William J. Earl" To: Andi Kleen Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: SPECweb for linux? In-Reply-To: References: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 546 Lines: 14 Andi Kleen writes: > "William J. Earl" writes: > > > Are there any SPECweb results for linux on one box or another? > > If you run it with the current sgilinux the results will probably be > very bad. The current network code has some performance problems (and > bugs) that will be fixed. The network code in 2.0 (especially 2.0.30 > and up) is very fast though. That version unfortunately doesn't run > on SGI (yet?). ... I was mainly thinking about SPECweb on Pentium II or other PC-class systems. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 12 15:38:20 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id PAA1204886 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:38:20 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA15289 for linux-list; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:32:28 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id PAA15175; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:32:10 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id PAA18259; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:32:07 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-17.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.17]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12862; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:31:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05776; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:28:22 +0100 Message-ID: <19971213002821.23958@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:28:21 +0100 To: Andi Kleen Cc: "William J. Earl" , linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: SPECweb for linux? References: <199712121915.LAA21845@fir.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Andi Kleen on Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:03:35PM +0100 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 950 Lines: 24 On Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:03:35PM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: > "William J. Earl" writes: > > > Are there any SPECweb results for linux on one box or another? > > If you run it with the current sgilinux the results will probably be > very bad. The current network code has some performance problems (and > bugs) that will be fixed. Btw, I recently reported 900kb/s over the wire for the Indy. That was measured using ftping huge files. Most people prefer the numbers from ttcp which where around 1038kb/s for an R5000 Indy. > The network code in 2.0 (especially 2.0.30 > and up) is very fast though. That version unfortunately doesn't run > on SGI (yet?). I actually did complete the port of 2.0.30 as part of a commercial project. Not to the Indy, but that wouldn't be too difficult. A certain well known (Hi :-) personality from the Linux comunity is now continuing that work. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 13 03:16:17 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id DAA1235529 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:16:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA04016 for linux-list; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:38 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA04011 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:35 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA14484 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:15:34 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-09.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.9]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01152 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:15:02 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06709; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:05:25 +0100 Message-ID: <19971213090525.19333@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:05:25 +0100 To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: crtbegin.o References: <19971212011157.53174@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Ryan on Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:35:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1327 Lines: 37 On Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:35:21PM -0500, Ryan wrote: > After hours of meticulous downloading, I grabbed all the RPMs I could from Hehe, shop for a watercooled NIC: [root@tbird redhat]# du -s RPMS SRPMS 174930 RPMS 207239 SRPMS Btw, after about a week of destruction testing: [root@tbird redhat]# uptime 8:54am up 16 days, 2:20, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 [root@tbird redhat]# No scratches, still supershiny ... > ftp.linux.sgi.com and began trying to install them. Most worked like a > charm, including many that I couldn't get to compile myself. . However, > one big problem has appeared: I can't compile any programs because > /usr/lib/crtbegin.o is now missing. I tried recompiling glibc-2.0.4 and > it didn't produce the file. After looking on a Redhat/ALPHA box, > /usr/lib/crtbegin.o belongs to glibc.rpm; what gives? It's actually produced as part of the GCC installation procedure. > Anyway, I'm looking for that file, if anyone can send it or tell me where > to find it. It's being installed as part of the GCC installation procedure. Quick fix: steal the files from a crosscompiler installation, if you have one. As Tim already said the missing files crtbegin.o, crtbeginS.o, crtend.o and crtendS.o should be part of gcc-2.7.2-1.mips.rpm; I'll upload a new package rsn. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 13 04:34:35 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA1093937 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:34:35 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA09958 for linux-list; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:34:07 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA09941 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:34:00 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA22899 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:33:58 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-08.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.8]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02269 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:33:27 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07234; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <19971213133006.53892@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:30:06 +0100 To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: crtbegin.o References: <19971212011157.53174@uni-koblenz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Ryan on Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:35:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 255 Lines: 6 While fixing this it turned out that the rpm also didn't contain all incarnations of libgcc.a - unlike the other Linux targets Linux/MIPS makes use of GCC's multilib feature and builds multiple libgcc.a. I've fixed this for the next release, too. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 13 20:12:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id UAA02876 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:12:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA04188 for linux-list; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:11:01 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA04182 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:10:58 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA26156 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:10:55 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-08.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.8]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25081 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 05:10:24 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09489; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:58:18 +0100 Message-ID: <19971214045818.29337@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:58:18 +0100 To: Alex deVries Cc: SGI Linux Subject: Re: Initrd, bzImage and more. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Alex deVries on Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:20:42AM -0500 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1718 Lines: 36 On Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 09:20:42AM -0500, Alex deVries wrote: > Back to the problem of getting initrd working... > > Here's where I recall leaving off. To use a compressed image, you > normally set some kernel flags using rdev or similiar to define the offset > of where the compressed image is. Now, there's something like 11 bits > available to define this offset. The problem is that on MIPS, > vmlinux kernels are considerably larger, so either the 11 bits needs to be > larger, or we need to make the kernel smaller. > > Making the kernel smaller is easily done by making bzImage kernels. When > I last looked, there was no way to compile a bzImage kernel. I don't > think fixing that would be that tough, but I guess what I don't understand > is why bzImage kernels are architecture specific. The entire way to boot a system, the fileformats used for etc. is highly architecture specific because you have to deal with initalizing some hardware state, stacks, firmware, processor modes and more. In short, unless you agree with Evil Bill that 640kb are enough for everybody, don't worry too much about the way the Intel guys have to booting their kernels and do the right thing. The PROM variables are way nicer than rdev to control the boot process. > I confess that I haven't looked at this very closely recently, so correct > me where I'm off. > > Ralf said at one point that we should use the ARC stuff, and that may be a > good idea. But, it's not consistent with the other architectures. It'd be > nice for SGI/Linux to be installed in the same way that RH does i386/Linux > setups. Actually I had enough ``fun'' with the ARC stuff that don't believe anymore that it was a good idea. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 15 00:24:07 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id AAA36575 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:24:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id AAA08666 for linux-list; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:21:31 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA08652 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:21:28 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id AAA08207 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:21:26 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-24.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.24]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02205 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:20:55 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12989; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:16:03 +0100 Message-ID: <19971215091602.29527@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:16:02 +0100 To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Cleanup ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1549 Lines: 32 Hi all, I removed support for all machines which aren't supposed to be useable or at least close to which are the ACN board, Deskstation Tyne, Deskstation rPC44 and DECstation. I haven't received patches for those machines over a long time and nobody seemed to be working on support for those machines. By now way this means that I don't want to see support for these machines and after all, whoever wants the old source fragments can still get them from the Attic/ directories in the CVS archive. The background is that I want to clean some things and without someone actually working for these machines I'd have broken the existing fragments anyway. On the positive side, the Indy stopped eating filesystems and seems to be quite useable, so when configuring you don't have to choose CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL any longer. I've moved most of the SGI specific configuration script stuff away from arch/mips/config.in to drivers/char/Config.in and drivers/sgi/char/Config.in. One of the next things to clean is the timer stuff. Currently it is not possible to use something that doesn't have 100% pc-style timers and rtc. I'll also remove support for linking a kernel as ECOFF. We're currently already have alot of ELF specific tricks and will use more in the future, so linking ELF -> ECOFF wouldn't work anymore. Whoever works for a machine that requires ECOFF kernels should get the ELF to ECOFF converter program from the Milo sources which will work and not trigger all sorts of binutils problems that are almost impossible to fix. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 15 04:54:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA39080 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:54:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA11722 for linux-list; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:54:05 -0800 Received: from meteor.nsg.sgi.com (meteor.nsg.sgi.com [134.14.162.53]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA11714 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:54:02 -0800 Received: (from hakamada@localhost) by meteor.nsg.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA18007; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:53:36 +0900 Message-Id: <199712151253.VAA18007@meteor.nsg.sgi.com> To: andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Mount ext2 filesystem. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:52:48 +0000 (GMT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on XEmacs 20.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:53:35 +0900 From: Takeshi Hakamada Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 953 Lines: 23 > As a warmup exercise, as I've been given access to an Indy and brought in > my home Linux x86 box as a bootserver, I'll try and install SGI/Linux. The > only prob is that I've never used/played with an SGI before and so would > appreciate a slightly more comprehensive howto then the FAQ. > > I've been lurking in the background the last few days and this seems like > an appropriate time to say "Hi". > > Any hints or tips anyone could send me would be much appreciated. Eventually, I've booted SGI/Linux from local disk. However, my e2fs partition(super block) has been corrupted, I'll re-mke2fs and reinstall rpm stuff on the local disk. I'm also preparing for Installation howto or FAQ. Thanks, -- Takeshi Hakamada Nihon Silicon Graphics Cray E-mail: hakamada@nsg.sgi.com, URL: http://reality.sgi.com/hakamada_nsg/ Phone: +81-45-682-3712, Fax: +81-45-682-0856 Voice mail: (internal)822-1300, (external)+81-3-5488-1863-1300 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 16 03:35:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id DAA161575 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:35:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA19697 for linux-list; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:34:37 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA19688 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:34:35 -0800 Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA25711 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:34:34 -0800 env-from (jojo@unixpc.germany.tandem.com) Received: from unixpc.germany.tandem.com (jojo@unixpc.germany.tandem.com [168.87.29.119]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id DAA15249 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by unixpc.germany.tandem.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07650 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:36:11 +0100 From: Joachim Schmitz Message-Id: <199712161036.LAA07650@unixpc.germany.tandem.com> Subject: bus error IRQ To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:36:08 +0100 (CET) Organization: Tandem Computers GmbH Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2972 Lines: 88 Hi list I'm new to this list and currently trying to setup my Indy for Linux. For a start I tried just to boot vmlinux-970916-efs and vmlinux-2.1.67 ... without success. Both boots ends up with: boot vmlinux-2.1.67 PROMLIB: SGI ARCS firmware Version 1 Revision 10 PROMLIB: Total free ram 64376832 bytes (62868k,61MB) ARCH: SGI-IP22 CPU: MIPS-R4600 FPU ICACHE DCACHE Loading R4000 MMU routines. CPU revision is: 00002020 Primary ICACHE 16k (linesize 32 bytes) Primary DCACHE 16k (linesize 32 bytes) R4600/R5000 SCACHE size 0K linesize 32 bytes MC: SGI memory controller Revision 3 calculating r4coff... 000a8fe8(692200) GFX INIT: SHMIQ setup usemaclone misc device registered (minor: 151) Video screen size is 00004c88 at 883e5d48 Console: 16 point font, 992 scans Console: color NEWPORT 158x62, 1 virtual console (max 63) Calibrating delay loop.. ok - 138.04 BogoMIPS Memory: 60304k/196196k available (1164k kernel code, 2880k data) Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 for Linux 2.1 NET3: Unix domain sockets 0.16 for Linux NET3.038. Swansea University Computer Society TCP/IP for NET3.037 IP Protocols: IGMP, ICMP, UDP, TCP Checking for 'wait' instruction... available. Linux version 2.1.67 (ralf@indy) (gcc version 2.7.2) #1 Sat Dec 6 12:48:52 PST 1997 POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX Starting kswapd v 1.23 SGI Zilog8530 serial driver version 1.00 tty00 at 0xbfdb9838 (irq=21) is a Zilog8530 tty01 at 0xbfdb9830 (irq=21) is a Zilog8530 loop: registered device at major 7 Got a bus error IRQ, shouldn't happen yet $0 : 00000000 1000fc01 88130000 00000000 $4 : 88174274 8812cb10 883fdcb8 00000001 $8 : 1000fc03 00000201 0000bf81 8813de68 $12: 00000001 00000001 00000001 fffffffc $16: 0000c000 8bf81000 00000000 00000000 $20: a87ffc20 a8746d10 9fc55064 00000000 $24: 1000fc01 0000000f $28: 881da370 883fdcb8 00000001 8800b0e8 epc : 880359f8 Status: 1000fc03 Cause : 00004000 Spinning... boot vmlinux-970916-efs ... calculating r4coff... 000a6cc0(683200) ... usema device registered (major 86) Video screensize is 00004c88 at 883a5c60 ... Calibrating delay loop.. ok - 136.40 BogoMIPS Memory: 60560k/196196k available (1020 kernel code, 2768k data) ... Linux version 2.1.55 (shaver@neon.ingenia.ca) (gcc version 2.7.2) #121 Tue Sep 16 16:30:52 EDT 1997 ... $0 : 00000000 00000000 00030000 80004000 $4 : 00000080 8bf84000 1000fc01 80003fe0 $8 : 00000000 00000000 0000bf83 881194d8 $12: 00000001 00000001 00000001 fffffffc $16: 0bf83000 8bf8r300 00000000 00000000 $20: a87ffc20 a8746d10 9fc55064 00000000 $24: 1000fc01 0000000f $28: 881da370 883bfda8 00000001 880d5910 epc : 880261bc Status: 1000fc03 Cause : 00004000 Spinning... (I hope I didn't make to much mistakes keying in the above) At this point it hangs. Only pulling the power cord helps. I have no linux-root filesystem (yet), but I don't think this is the reason for this behavoir, right? -- Bye, Jojo email: work SCHMITZ_JOACHIM@Tandem.COM home Joachim_Schmitz@D.maus.de From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 16 03:09:33 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id DAA157433 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:09:33 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA16985 for linux-list; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:08:54 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA16978 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:08:52 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA20279 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:08:49 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23609 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:08:17 +0100 (MET) Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id MAA01786; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:08:15 +0100 Message-ID: <19971216120814.45661@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:08:14 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Benchmarks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3816 Lines: 73 Hia, just for fun I ran lmbench on Linux and IRIX, here are the results. Some of the results are obviously bogus ... The machines: - Dull, a 200MHz Pentium MMX clone - Indy, a 180MHz R5000SC machine Ralf L M B E N C H 1 . 9 S U M M A R Y ------------------------------------ (Alpha software, do not distribute) Processor, Processes - times in microseconds - smaller is better ---------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz null null open selct sig sig fork exec sh call I/O stat clos inst hndl proc proc proc --------- ------------- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 200 1.1 1.8 29 44 0.08K 2.5 5 0.8K 5K 15K indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 180 6.8 6.3 38 61 0.12K 6.3 18 2.0K 22K 70K indy IRIX 6.2 180 2.9 10.0 88 110 2.44K 6.2 36 7.0K 19K 32K ^^^ Had this down to 1.8 for Linux 2.0.30, time to port the stuff to 2.1. Context switching - times in microseconds - smaller is better ------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 2p/0K 2p/16K 2p/64K 8p/16K 8p/64K 16p/16K 16p/64K ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw --------- ------------- ----- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------- ------- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 5 52 171 64 244 75 325 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 4 251 155 655 155 655 indy IRIX 6.2 13 20 135 94 301 143 482 *Local* Communication latencies in microseconds - smaller is better ------------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 2p/0K Pipe AF UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ TCP ctxsw UNIX UDP TCP conn --------- ------------- ----- ----- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 5 19 36 89 212 139 289 1276 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 4 34 52 103 280 165 406 597 indy IRIX 6.2 13 62 126 356 718 361 689 1321 File & VM system latencies in microseconds - smaller is better -------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 0K File 10K File Mmap Prot Page Create Delete Create Delete Latency Fault Fault --------- ------------- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------- ----- ----- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 59 4 106 9 7582 2 0.1K indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 14285 1 indy IRIX 6.2 450 813 1694 2325 3317 23.0K *Local* Communication bandwidths in MB/s - bigger is better ----------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe AF TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem UNIX reread reread (libc) (hand) read write --------- ------------- ---- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 53 29 23 41 121 49 51 123 88 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 55 24 6 26 60 0 0 0 0 indy IRIX 6.2 33 39 26 23 57 26 54 57 43 Memory latencies in nanoseconds - smaller is better (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) --------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem Guesses --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- ------- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 200 10 88 146 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 180 10 200 460 indy IRIX 6.2 180 11 197 485 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Tue Dec 16 04:26:23 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA164440 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:26:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA24284 for linux-list; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:24:49 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA24263 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:24:40 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA04581 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 04:24:38 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA28691; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:24:09 +0100 (MET) Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id NAA07121; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:24:08 +0100 Message-ID: <19971216132407.31525@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:24:07 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Joachim Schmitz Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: bus error IRQ References: <199712161036.LAA07650@unixpc.germany.tandem.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712161036.LAA07650@unixpc.germany.tandem.com>; from Joachim Schmitz on Tue, Dec 16, 1997 at 11:36:08AM +0100 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 846 Lines: 22 On Tue, Dec 16, 1997 at 11:36:08AM +0100, Joachim Schmitz wrote: > I'm new to this list and currently trying to setup my Indy for Linux. > For a start I tried just to boot vmlinux-970916-efs and vmlinux-2.1.67 > ... without success. Both boots ends up with: > > boot vmlinux-2.1.67 > PROMLIB: SGI ARCS firmware Version 1 Revision 10 > PROMLIB: Total free ram 64376832 bytes (62868k,61MB) > ARCH: SGI-IP22 > CPU: MIPS-R4600 FPU ICACHE DCACHE > Loading R4000 MMU routines. > CPU revision is: 00002020 > Primary ICACHE 16k (linesize 32 bytes) > Primary DCACHE 16k (linesize 32 bytes) > R4600/R5000 SCACHE size 0K linesize 32 bytes ^^ That's the problem, there is a kernel bug which prevents Linux from working on R4600/R5000 Indys without second level cache. My next kernel release will fix that. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 17 01:50:59 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id BAA308984 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:50:58 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA23157 for linux-list; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:48:52 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA23147 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:48:48 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA18573 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:48:46 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-07.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.7]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26682 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:48:10 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18166; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:43:35 +0100 Message-ID: <19971217104334.61898@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:43:34 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu, tcharron@interlog.com Subject: RC5-64 client for Linux/MIPS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1593 Lines: 42 Recently, on a MIPS box a couple of ms away ... [root@tbird rc5]# ./rc564 -benchmark RC5-64 v2.6401 client - a project of distributed.net Copyright distributed.net 1997 Visit http://www.distributed.net/ for more information. 'rc564 HELP' for usage Benchmarking with 10000000 tests: .....10%.....20%.....30%.....40%.....50%.....60%.....70%.....80%.....90%.... Complete in 88.86 seconds. [112532.37 keys/sec] [root@tbird rc5]# uname -a Linux rm200.mips-man.org 2.1.56 #204 Wed Nov 26 23:21:24 PST 1997 mips unknown [root@tbird rc5]# cat /proc/cpuinfo cpu : MIPS cpu model : R4600 V2.0 system type : SNI RM200 PCI BogoMIPS : 133.12 byteorder : little endian unaligned accesses : 48 wait instruction : yes microsecond timers : yes extra interrupt vector : no hardware watchpoint : no [root@tbird rc5]# How about joining the RC5-64 effort as "Team MIPS"? I'll build binary packages and will make them available via the usual ftp sites (ftp.fnet.fr, ftp.linux.sgi.com) as well as via www.distributed.net. I didn't take myself the time for comparing the benchmarks with other machine but I think the numbers leave whishes about higher performance open. Btw, the RC5 client for MIPS was delayed alot by the recently reported libg++ showstopper bug. I haven't fixed the problem yet for real but once again it smells like a dynamic linker bug. I was able to work around by a static (yuck) executable. Ok, and now it's up to you people to burn your cycles. Ralf (... gimme all your CPU ...) From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 17 03:44:01 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id DAA316178 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:44:01 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id DAA03236 for linux-list; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:42:54 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id DAA03223 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:42:47 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id DAA06736 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:42:45 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from zaphod (ralf@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.13]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06449; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:42:04 +0100 (MET) Received: by zaphod (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id MAA15743; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <19971217124202.65461@zaphod.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:42:02 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Michael Elizabeth Chastain Cc: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Trivial patch: arch/mips/config.in References: <199712171053.EAA11267@duracef.shout.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712171053.EAA11267@duracef.shout.net>; from Michael Elizabeth Chastain on Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 04:53:56AM -0600 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1502 Lines: 39 On Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 04:53:56AM -0600, Michael Elizabeth Chastain wrote: > Hello MIPS hackers, > > I'm working on Menuconfig and I found that arch/mips/config.in has > a trivial syntax error. Here is a patch. > > I don't read this list so please send copies of any replies to me. Thanks, applied. Ralf > diff -u -r -N linux-2.1.72/arch/mips/config.in linux/arch/mips/config.in > --- linux-2.1.72/arch/mips/config.in Tue Dec 2 13:41:44 1997 > +++ linux/arch/mips/config.in Wed Dec 17 04:46:38 1997 > @@ -97,6 +97,7 @@ > bool 'Set version information on all symbols for modules' CONFIG_MODVERSIONS > bool 'Kernel daemon support (e.g. autoload of modules)' CONFIG_KERNELD > fi > +endmenu > > source drivers/block/Config.in > -- Uni Koblenz live: [...] 4 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=55. time=18530. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=56. time=17534. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=57. time=16542. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=59. time=14556. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=60. time=13559. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=61. time=12562. ms 64 bytes from kernel.panic.julia.de (194.221.49.153): icmp_seq=63. time=10565. ms [...] ----194.221.xx.xx PING Statistics---- 80 packets transmitted, 40 packets received, 50% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 4145/35740/70823 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 18 04:04:52 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id EAA19673 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:04:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id EAA03824 for linux-list; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:03:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA03810 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:03:35 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id EAA07625 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:03:33 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-08.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.8]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18358 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:02:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20682; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:47:53 +0100 Message-ID: <19971218064753.33363@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:47:53 +0100 To: Martin Espinoza Cc: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: IS there any motion to port mipslinux to SGI Indigo Iris? References: <34984B87.AF7025F2@tivoli.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <34984B87.AF7025F2@tivoli.com>; from Martin Espinoza on Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 10:00:39PM +0000 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 258 Lines: 8 On Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 10:00:39PM +0000, Martin Espinoza wrote: > Since the SGI port may or may not ever get there :) Nobody is currently working on it. Volunteers wanted, I guess that box is old enough so SGI would give out all the docs for it. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 17 22:59:38 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA04062 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:59:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA22963 for linux-list; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:58:15 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA22958 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:58:13 -0800 Received: from kbtfw.kubota.co.jp (kbtfw.kubota.co.jp [133.253.102.202]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA17231 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:58:09 -0800 env-from (tatsuya@na.kubota.co.jp) Received: by kbtfw.kubota.co.jp; id PAA19110; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from unknown(133.253.122.1) by kbtfw.kubota.co.jp via smap (3.2) id xma019049; Thu, 18 Dec 97 15:57:04 +0900 Received: from nagoya.na.kubota.co.jp by kbtmx.eto.kubota.co.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.3W9-97112516) with ESMTP id PAA26292; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:57:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from katana.na.kubota.co.jp (katana.na.kubota.co.jp [133.253.116.199]) by nagoya.na.kubota.co.jp (8.7.4+2.6Wbeta6/3.4W4-03/20/96) with ESMTP id PAA13514; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by katana.na.kubota.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6Wbeta7-971117) with ESMTP id GAA17062; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:54:28 GMT To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Please tell me about How to start Linux/MIPS on Magnum4000. X-Mailer: Mew version 1.92.4 on XEmacs 20.3 (Vatican City) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Face-Version: X-Face utility v1.2.9 - "Strawberry Fields Forever" X-Face: 7i9VD[%efn--h~!0Z3:KC{oUeq)8FWU<42{]%@#^acK1fs\\6TUBGRocwpkO( LhobI1)FDcE6S_8e1Ega2?Mhgd`Efo4X!QZ+=lL#JZ\^VXZ=li'#WYP{I#6t_J'[gGr!w]bVR73j[p Q?g7_Y~STbZsHV&^;v2j]1jhM"VJ-^_y~5>7m.rEslEZpf3>4{?{v]ZAg$U`q)&|"Zl-s']/.J09+' 0I|Tu&bC&bg Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19971218155427N.tatsuya@na.kubota.co.jp> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:54:27 +0900 (JST) From: Tatsuya Nakamura X-Dispatcher: imput version 971024 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1098 Lines: 42 Hello. I'm interested in Linux/MIPS. and I want to use Linux/MIPS. I got the MIPS Magnum 4000 SC-50 a few weeks ago. Now I try to start of Linux/MIPS on my Magnum, but couldn't it. Please help me. First, I got the milo-0.27.tar.gz, linux-2_1_36_tar.gz, from ftp.fnet.fr/linux-mips/src. And got the cross development tools binutils-2_7-4_tar.gz, gcc-2_7_2-5_tar.gz, float_h.gz, from ftp.fnet.fr/linux-mips/crossdev/mips-sgi-irix6.2/mipsel-linux. (Now I use Indy with IRIX 6.2) Install the cross development tools, make the vmlinux(zImage), and copy the "milo" and "pandora"(binary in the milo-0.27.tar.gz) and "zImage" to floppy. When I started the milo(type a:\milo in "Run a Program"), appear this message: Linux/MIPS ARC Bootstrap Loader 0.27 Copyright (C) Waldorf Electronics and others 1994, 1995, 1996 Launching Kernel... and system was stop. Please tell me the next step. with best Regards. +-------------------------------------------+ | KGT Inc,. Nagoya Service Center | | Tatsuya Nakamura tatsuya@na.kubota.co.jp | +-------------------------------------------+ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Thu Dec 18 23:24:46 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA59548 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:24:46 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA08364 for linux-list; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:23:48 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id XAA08357 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:23:46 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id XAA16390 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:23:44 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-03.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.3]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08945 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:23:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA22378; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:18:57 +0100 Message-ID: <19971219081856.16849@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:18:56 +0100 To: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Merge back Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 277 Lines: 6 Linus finally accepted my kernel patches and included them into 2.1.73 that way at least the bulky parts are now synchronsized with him. I'll work on gradually fully integrating the rest of the MIPS stuff. I think we should go for Jazz, RM200 and Indy support in 2.2. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 19 02:58:04 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id CAA67736 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:58:04 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id CAA02592 for linux-list; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:56:50 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id CAA02584 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:56:45 -0800 Received: from snowcrash.cymru.net (snowcrash.cymru.net [163.164.160.3]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id CAA01127 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:56:43 -0800 env-from (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (the-village.bc.nu [163.164.160.21]) by snowcrash.cymru.net (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA32315; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:55:10 GMT Received: by lightning.swansea.linux.org.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0xj0G8-0005FsC; Fri, 19 Dec 97 11:06 GMT Message-Id: From: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Merge back To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:06:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: linux-mips@fnet.fr, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux-mips@vger.rutgers.edu In-Reply-To: <19971219081856.16849@uni-koblenz.de> from "ralf@uni-koblenz.de" at Dec 19, 97 08:18:56 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 449 Lines: 9 > Linus finally accepted my kernel patches and included them into 2.1.73 > that way at least the bulky parts are now synchronsized with him. I'll > work on gradually fully integrating the rest of the MIPS stuff. > I think we should go for Jazz, RM200 and Indy support in 2.2. Cool. I've got a new monitor, binutils and glib, but before anyone else ends up back in Irix mending their disk - the ld.so rpm in the big endian dir is little endian... From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Fri Dec 19 22:24:56 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA251926 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:24:55 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id WAA13928 for linux-list; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:24:05 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA13923 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:24:04 -0800 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id WAA11066 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:24:03 -0800 env-from (shaver@netscape.com) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13942 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([208.12.32.37]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA12930 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:23:39 -0800 Message-ID: <349B6479.81090131@netscape.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 06:23:53 +0000 From: Mike Shaver Organization: Package Reflectors X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.31 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: back in the saddle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 740 Lines: 20 Just booted my borrowed Indy to Linux, and then proceeded to destroy its e2fs partition with some excessive use of Alan's installer. It looks like it's a viable install setup though, so I'm going to try an produce a more managable kit tonight: - minimal root.cpio to boot to (no kernel source, for example, and no compiler =) ) - rpm.cpio with everything you need to do further installs via ftp://ftp.linux.sgi.com/pub/mips-linux/RPMS/... - a handful of ext2tools (mke2fs, e2fsck -- you need to e2fsck at each step, it seems) I'll bundle it all up in a nice tarball and stick it on linus for people to play with. (There are a bunch of folks here at Netscape who are interested in playing with it as well.) Mike -- 346388.73 321677.24 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 20 12:14:32 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA294664 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:14:32 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA12378 for linux-list; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:13:15 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA12371 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:13:13 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA04638 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:13:12 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11464; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:11:39 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:11:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199712202011.OAA11464@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <349B6479.81090131@netscape.com> (message from Mike Shaver on Sat, 20 Dec 1997 06:23:53 +0000) Subject: My Indy died. X-Quote: If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 290 Lines: 10 Hello guys, My Indy died yesterday. I just heard it going off. I changed the power supply cables and checked that the problem is indeed not with the cables. I can not turn it on, I assume it is just a fuse in the power supply, anyone familiar with common Indy failures? Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 20 13:47:11 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA299258 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:47:10 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA19746 for linux-list; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:45:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA19741 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:45:40 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id NAA21995 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:45:37 -0800 env-from (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) From: ralf@uni-koblenz.de Received: from uni-koblenz.de (pmport-10.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.249.10]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15512 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:45:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from ralf@localhost) by uni-koblenz.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25569; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:40:37 +0100 Message-ID: <19971220224036.52320@uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:40:36 +0100 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Polishing the cache routines ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 4147 Lines: 71 Hoho, minor side effects of polishing the cache routines ... Ralf L M B E N C H 1 . 9 S U M M A R Y ------------------------------------ (Alpha software, do not distribute) Processor, Processes - times in microseconds - smaller is better ---------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz null null open selct sig sig fork exec sh call I/O stat clos inst hndl proc proc proc --------- ------------- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 200 1.1 1.8 29 44 0.08K 2.5 5 0.8K 5K 15K indy IRIX 6.2 180 2.9 10.0 88 110 2.44K 6.2 36 7.0K 19K 32K indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 180 6.8 6.3 38 61 0.12K 6.3 18 2.0K 22K 70K indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 180 4.5 6.3 26 34 0.10K 7.9 15 1.6K 18K 55K ^^^ IRIX lost that one ... Context switching - times in microseconds - smaller is better ------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 2p/0K 2p/16K 2p/64K 8p/16K 8p/64K 16p/16K 16p/64K ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw ctxsw --------- ------------- ----- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------- ------- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 5 52 171 64 244 75 325 indy IRIX 6.2 13 20 135 94 301 143 482 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 4 111 251 155 655 155 655 indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 5 282 92 685 155 748 *Local* Communication latencies in microseconds - smaller is better ------------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 2p/0K Pipe AF UDP RPC/ TCP RPC/ TCP ctxsw UNIX UDP TCP conn --------- ------------- ----- ----- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 5 19 36 89 212 139 289 1276 indy IRIX 6.2 13 62 126 356 718 361 689 1321 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 4 34 52 103 280 165 406 597 indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 5 49 66 108 278 160 412 635 File & VM system latencies in microseconds - smaller is better -------------------------------------------------------------- Host OS 0K File 10K File Mmap Prot Page Create Delete Create Delete Latency Fault Fault --------- ------------- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------- ----- ----- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 59 4 106 9 7582 2 0.1K indy IRIX 6.2 450 813 1694 2325 3317 23.0K indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 61 8 132 16 14285 1 indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 75 22 110 14 12222 3 0.3K *Local* Communication bandwidths in MB/s - bigger is better ----------------------------------------------------------- Host OS Pipe AF TCP File Mmap Bcopy Bcopy Mem Mem UNIX reread reread (libc) (hand) read write --------- ------------- ---- ---- ---- ------ ------ ------ ------ ---- ----- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 53 29 23 41 121 49 51 123 88 indy IRIX 6.2 33 39 26 23 57 26 54 57 43 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 55 24 6 26 60 28 60 65 44 indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 49 22 7 29 60 0 0 0 0 Memory latencies in nanoseconds - smaller is better (WARNING - may not be correct, check graphs) --------------------------------------------------- Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem Guesses --------- ------------- --- ---- ---- -------- ------- dull.coba Linux 2.0.27 200 10 88 146 indy IRIX 6.2 180 11 197 485 indy.wald Linux 2.1.72 180 10 200 460 indy.wald Linux 2.1.73 180 10 210 460 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sat Dec 20 16:19:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id QAA308231 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA01465 for linux-list; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:18:52 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id QAA01460 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:18:50 -0800 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id QAA22982 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:18:49 -0800 env-from (shaver@netscape.com) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07113 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.243.3]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA13525 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:18:18 -0800 Message-ID: <349C6008.1C2F9866@netscape.com> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:17:12 -0800 From: Mike Shaver Organization: Package Reflectors X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; U; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Linux-installer-0.1.tar.gz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DFDF405DBCEAC354DDB30F43" Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3087 Lines: 83 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DFDF405DBCEAC354DDB30F43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ftp://ftp.linux.sgi.com/pub/mips-linux/GettingStarted/Linux-installer-0.1.tar.gz has the goods. I've attached the INSTALL file that comes with it -- comments welcome. I'm going to see if I can't fix that RPM problem now, because that would let me cut the cpio size down further. Share and enjoy! Mike --------------DFDF405DBCEAC354DDB30F43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="INSTALL" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="INSTALL" First, you must pick a partition. I can't help you with this, beyond assuring you that you don't want to choose one that IRIX needs. This partition can be on a new drive, etc. Anything SCSI is fine, I suspect, although I've only tried disk drives. Once you've chosen a partition, make a symbolic link to it so that you don't slip up and toast something: I chose "drive". Now, it's a matter of a few simple steps: 1: make the ext2 partition: indy #./mke2fs drive [much information flies by] 2: start the installer, and make your basic devices: indy #./installer drive cjwsh> MAKEDEV [device info] 3: still in the installer, load the bootstrap file cjwsh> cpio root-be-0.01.cpio [piles of cpio extraction information] cjwsh> exit [ a moderately lengthy pause, and possibly a bus error -- don't worry about it ] indy # 4: check the filesystem, and repair minor damage indy #./e2fsck -fy drive [ diagnostic messages, including a few bad bits found -- all is well ] 5: copy the kernel into place in the root of your EFS partition indy #gzip -dc vmlinux.gz > /vmlinux [ XXX need info on how to boot from non-default devices ] 6: reboot! At the boot prompt, you'll want to enter something like: boot vmlinux root=/dev/sdb3 Your choice of root= parameter will vary. sda is the first SCSI device, sdb the second, etc., all assigned in increasing order of SCSI ID. The partition number also varies, and it doesn't necessarily match the "slice ID" from IRIX. Experiment a bit -- you can't hurt anything. If it prompts you to enter a runlevel, you got it right. Enter 's' and press Enter when prompted for a root password. You're in, and there are tools there to allow you to configure your network and ftp out. Known problems: - RPM doesn't work, so you can't continue the installation easily. Fixing this is my first priority, and I suspect it's a library issue. - telnet doesn't work, because it's missing ncurses. Duh. - If you want to change anything, you need to remount the root drive read-write. This should be made easier in the future when I remember to fix the /etc/mtab stuff, but in the meantime, I use this: # mount -t ext -n -orw,remount /dev/sdc4 / (sdc4 is my root partition) # mount -t proc none /proc # cat /proc/mounts > /etc/mtab - the installer should include "netcfg" to ease the network setup. --------------DFDF405DBCEAC354DDB30F43-- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Dec 21 08:47:57 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA356347 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:47:57 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA03452 for linux-list; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:45:41 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA03447 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:45:39 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id IAA18950 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:45:37 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10074 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:45:14 +0100 (MET) Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id RAA12592; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:45:11 +0100 Message-ID: <19971221174510.56280@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:45:10 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Mergeback Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 134 Lines: 6 Hi, can anybody else work a bit on merging things back to Linus for the next couple of days? I wont have very much time :-( Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Dec 21 11:04:16 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA366928 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:04:16 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA13006 for linux-list; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:02:52 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12997 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:02:50 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA13312 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:02:49 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18285; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:00:51 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:00:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199712211900.NAA18285@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: ralf@uni-koblenz.de CC: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com In-reply-to: <19971220224036.52320@uni-koblenz.de> (ralf@uni-koblenz.de) Subject: Re: Polishing the cache routines ... X-Quote: If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 169 Lines: 10 > minor side effects of polishing the cache routines ... > > Ralf What exactly did the polishing do? I saw that we are down in a couple of tests. Cheers, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Sun Dec 21 11:13:25 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA367537 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:13:25 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA13682 for linux-list; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:12:36 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA13678 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:12:35 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA15759 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:12:33 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA13055; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:12:08 +0100 (MET) Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id UAA12770; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:12:07 +0100 Message-ID: <19971221201207.54857@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:12:07 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Miguel de Icaza Cc: ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Polishing the cache routines ... References: <19971220224036.52320@uni-koblenz.de> <199712211900.NAA18285@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712211900.NAA18285@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx>; from Miguel de Icaza on Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 01:00:51PM -0600 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 492 Lines: 15 On Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 01:00:51PM -0600, Miguel de Icaza wrote: > > > minor side effects of polishing the cache routines ... > > > > Ralf > > What exactly did the polishing do? I saw that we are down in a couple > of tests. Most of these values where we went down aren't stable across several runs. The improoved values for the exec & sh test however were pretty stable. The optimization was getting rid of flushing the second level cache in r4k_flush_page_to_ram_d32i32(). Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 22 01:27:29 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id BAA416282 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:27:29 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id BAA19896 for linux-list; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:18:16 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id BAA19858 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:17:50 -0800 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id BAA26828 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:17:49 -0800 env-from (shaver@netscape.com) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16117 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.243.3]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA23070 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:17:07 -0800 Message-ID: <349E2FCF.605C2665@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:15:59 -0800 From: Mike Shaver Organization: Package Reflectors X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; U; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: flush_cache_all() hoses my Indy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 891 Lines: 25 OK, I've been tracking a bug that only seems to appear on the Indy I have at home right now (belongs to the housemates). After sgiseeq_init allocates the ring buffers, it calls flush_cache_all(). On this system, that zeroes out the ring buffer pointers (rx and tx -- likely the entire dev->priv block and more) and then setup_tx_ring gets understandably upset. =) Anyway, I'm not enough of a MIPS guru to really say much more, but I'll poke around tonight and see if I can stumble across anything useful. Linux reports: MIPS 4400 FPU ICACHE DCACHE SCACHE CPU Revision 0460 hinv tells me: 1 200 MHZ IP22 Processor FPU: MIPS R4000 Floating Point Coprocessor Revision: 0.0 CPU: MIPS R4400 Processor Chip Revision: 6.0 Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes Data cache size: 16 Kbytes More than this I do not know, but I'll run any test that doesn't risk permanent damage. Mike From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 22 12:53:52 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA465570 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:53:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA16557 for linux-list; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:43:50 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA16460 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:43:28 -0800 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA20328 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:43:27 -0800 env-from (shaver@netscape.com) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26704 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([208.12.32.37]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA19572; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:42:44 -0800 Message-ID: <349ED0CB.9D6954FF@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:42:51 +0000 From: Mike Shaver Organization: Package Reflectors X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.31 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eak@detroit.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: Linux-installer-0.1.tar.gz References: <349C6008.1C2F9866@netscape.com> <349E828D.FBF7500A@cygnus.detroit.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 271 Lines: 15 Eric Kimminau wrote: > > 2: start the installer, and make your basic devices: > > indy #./installer drive > > cjwsh> MAKEDEV > > [device info] > > where is this binary??? Oops! I'll fix that, and put a new version (0.2) up tonight. Mike -- 572996.46 547171.35 From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 22 12:53:52 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA460724 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:53:52 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id MAA17202 for linux-list; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:46:10 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA17184 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:46:08 -0800 Received: from informatik.uni-koblenz.de (mailhost.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.1]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id MAA20996 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:46:03 -0800 env-from (ralf@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de) Received: from thoma (ralf@thoma.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.4.61]) by informatik.uni-koblenz.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA03830; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:45:26 +0100 (MET) Received: by thoma (SMI-8.6/KO-2.0) id VAA15307; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:45:24 +0100 Message-ID: <19971222214524.32302@thoma.uni-koblenz.de> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:45:24 +0100 From: Ralf Baechle To: Mike Shaver Cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Re: flush_cache_all() hoses my Indy References: <349E2FCF.605C2665@netscape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <349E2FCF.605C2665@netscape.com>; from Mike Shaver on Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 01:15:59AM -0800 Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 785 Lines: 18 On Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 01:15:59AM -0800, Mike Shaver wrote: > OK, I've been tracking a bug that only seems to appear on the Indy I > have at home right now (belongs to the housemates). After sgiseeq_init > allocates the ring buffers, it calls flush_cache_all(). On this system, > that zeroes out the ring buffer pointers (rx and tx -- likely the entire > dev->priv block and more) and then setup_tx_ring gets understandably > upset. =) > > Anyway, I'm not enough of a MIPS guru to really say much more, but I'll > poke around tonight and see if I can stumble across anything useful. > > Linux reports: > MIPS 4400 FPU ICACHE DCACHE SCACHE There is a bug in the l2 flushing for theSC/MC versions, it uses the wrong cacheops. I've fixed it in my home tree. Ralf From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 22 22:02:34 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id WAA503268 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:02:34 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA02389 for linux-list; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:53:45 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA02384 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:53:44 -0800 Received: from note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU (note.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU [129.94.242.29]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via SMTP id VAA08406 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:53:43 -0800 env-from (andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au) Received: From haydn With LocalMail ; Tue, 23 Dec 97 16:52:52 +1100 From: "Andrew O'Brien" To: SGI/Linux mailing list Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:52:43 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: andrewo@haydn.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU Reply-To: andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au Subject: Anyone send a binary r4600 no L2 cache kernel ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 964 Lines: 22 As the subject suggests, I'm having problems setting up a proper cross-compilation environment due to many factors (like its not even my box, very screwed IRIX installation etc). While I'm sure I can work this out in a few days, if someone has a relatively stable kernel binary for the r4600 that has _NO_ L2 cache, this would be great if you could email it to me. Perhaps putting a binary up on the ftp site would be a good idea as it would be a big help to those who, like me, only have access to a L2 cacheless system. Thanks ___________________________________________________________________ / Andrew O'Brien andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au bbq@mindless.com \ / Student, Faculty of CSE http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~andrewo \ > UNSW, Australia President COMPSOC http://www/~compsoc < \ BE (Comp)/BA (Psych) Student Representative stu-reps@cse.. / \___ "finger -l andrewo@cse.unsw.edu.au" for my current location ___/ From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 24 18:55:03 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA667957 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:55:03 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id SAA14862 for linux-list; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:46:16 -0800 Received: from tantrik.engr.sgi.com (tantrik.engr.sgi.com [192.26.72.25]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA14858 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:46:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (shm@localhost) by tantrik.engr.sgi.com (971110.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id SAA01273 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:46:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:46:14 -0800 (PST) From: Shrijeet Mukherjee To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: problems with crossdev env .. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1072019431-1385156519-883017932=:1224" Content-ID: Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 6389 Lines: 126 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1072019431-1385156519-883017932=:1224 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Ralf, I tried to follow the instructions on the linux.sgi.com page .. first off, the binutils and gcc tarballs did not have the configure scripts in them , so that part of the instructions were not possible to follow .. in trying to make the linux kernel, I ran into the following problems .. could you please take a look, and suggest what the problems maybe find attached 2 attachments .. 1-> is the result of trying to do a gmake 2-> the hinv of the machine .. please suggest what needs to be done .. Thanx -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shrijeet Mukherjee, Member of Technical Staff (MTS) Advanced Graphics Division Silicon Graphics Computer Systems http://reality.sgi.com/shm_engr phone: 650-933-5312 email: shm@engr.sgi.com, shm@sgi.com, shm@cs.uoregon.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not a loser, just successfully challenged -- shm ---1072019431-1385156519-883017932=:1224 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=logger Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: ZmZ5MS91c3IvZ251L2Jpbi9iYXNoDQpiYXNoLTIuMDAjIGV4aXQNCnNhZmZ5 MWlkDQp1aWQ9MChyb290KSBnaWQ9MChzeXMpDQpzYWZmeTFleGl0DQpTY3Jp cHQgZG9uZSwgZmlsZSBpcyB0eXBlc2NyaXB0DQpzYWZmeTFleGl0DQpTY3Jp cHQgZG9uZSwgZmlsZSBpcyB0eXBlc2NyaXB0DQpyb290ICMgcHdkDQovdXNy L2xpbnV4L3Vzci9zcmMvbGludXgtMi4wLjIxDQpyb290ICMgc2NyaXB0DQpT Y3JpcHQgc3RhcnRlZCwgZmlsZSBpcyB0eXBlc2NyaXB0DQpzYWZmeTEvdXNy L2dudS9iaW4vYmFzaA0KYmFzaC0yLjAwIyBwd2QNCi91c3IvbGludXgvdXNy L3NyYy9saW51eA0KYmFzaC0yLjAwIyBscw0KQ09QWUlORyAgICAgICAgTWFr ZWZpbGUgICAgICAgZHJpdmVycyAgICAgICAgaXBjICAgICAgICAgICAgbW9k dWxlcw0KQ1JFRElUUyAgICAgICAgUkVBRE1FICAgICAgICAgZnMgICAgICAg ICAgICAga2VybmVsICAgICAgICAgbmV0DQpEb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uICBSdWxl cy5tYWtlICAgICBpbmNsdWRlICAgICAgICBsaWIgICAgICAgICAgICBzY3Jp cHRzDQpNQUlOVEFJTkVSUyAgICBhcmNoICAgICAgICAgICBpbml0ICAgICAg ICAgICBtbSAgICAgICAgICAgICB0eXBlc2NyaXB0DQpiYXNoLTIuMDAjIGV4 aXQNCnNhZmZ5MWV4aXQNClNjcmlwdCBkb25lLCBmaWxlIGlzIHR5cGVzY3Jp cHQNCnJvb3QgIyAvdXNyL2dudS9iaW4vYmFzaA0KYmFzaC0yLjAwIyBleHBv cnQgUEFUSD0kUEFUSDovdXNyL2dudS9iaW46L3Vzci9saW51eC91c3IvbG9j YWwvYmluDQpiYXNoLTIuMDAjIDtzDQpiYXNoOiBzeW50YXggZXJyb3IgbmVh ciB1bmV4cGVjdGVkIHRva2VuIGA7cycNCmJhc2gtMi4wMCMgbHMNCkNPUFlJ TkcgICAgICAgIE1ha2VmaWxlICAgICAgIGRyaXZlcnMgICAgICAgIGlwYyAg ICAgICAgICAgIG1vZHVsZXMNCkNSRURJVFMgICAgICAgIFJFQURNRSAgICAg ICAgIGZzICAgICAgICAgICAgIGtlcm5lbCAgICAgICAgIG5ldA0KRG9jdW1l bnRhdGlvbiAgUnVsZXMubWFrZSAgICAgaW5jbHVkZSAgICAgICAgbGliICAg ICAgICAgICAgc2NyaXB0cw0KTUFJTlRBSU5FUlMgICAgYXJjaCAgICAgICAg ICAgaW5pdCAgICAgICAgICAgbW0gICAgICAgICAgICAgdHlwZXNjcmlwdA0K YmFzaC0yLjAwIyBnbWFrZSBDUk9TU19DT01QSUxFPW1pcHMtbGludXggQ09O RklHX1NIRUxMPS91c3IvZ251L2Jpbi9iYXNoDQpnbWFrZVsxXTogRW50ZXJp bmcgZGlyZWN0b3J5IGAvdXNyL2xpbnV4L3Vzci9zcmMvbGludXgtMi4wLjIx L2FyY2gvbWlwcy9ib290Jw0KbWlwcy1saW51eGdjYyAtRF9fS0VSTkVMX18g LUkvdXNyL2xpbnV4L3Vzci9zcmMvbGludXgvaW5jbHVkZSAtRSAtV2FsbCAt V3N0cmljdC1wcm90b3R5cGVzIC1PMiAtZm9taXQtZnJhbWUtcG9pbnRlciAt RyAwIC1tbm8tYWJpY2FsbHMgLWZuby1waWMgLW1jcHU9cjQ0MDAgLW1pcHMz ICAtTSAqLltjU10gPiAuZGVwZW5kDQovYmluL3NoOiBtaXBzLWxpbnV4Z2Nj OiAgbm90IGZvdW5kDQpnbWFrZVsxXTogKioqIFtkZXBdIEVycm9yIDEyNw0K Z21ha2VbMV06IExlYXZpbmcgZGlyZWN0b3J5IGAvdXNyL2xpbnV4L3Vzci9z cmMvbGludXgtMi4wLjIxL2FyY2gvbWlwcy9ib290Jw0KZ21ha2U6ICoqKiBb YXJjaGRlcF0gRXJyb3IgMg0KYmFzaC0yLjAwIyBnbWFrZSBkZXAgQ1JPU1Nf Q09NUElMRT1taXBzLWxpbnV4IENPTkZJR19TSEVMTD0vdXNyL2dudS9iaW4v YmFzaA0KZ21ha2VbMV06IEVudGVyaW5nIGRpcmVjdG9yeSBgL3Vzci9saW51 eC91c3Ivc3JjL2xpbnV4LTIuMC4yMS9hcmNoL21pcHMvYm9vdCcNCm1pcHMt bGludXhnY2MgLURfX0tFUk5FTF9fIC1JL3Vzci9saW51eC91c3Ivc3JjL2xp bnV4L2luY2x1ZGUgLUUgLVdhbGwgLVdzdHJpY3QtcHJvdG90eXBlcyAtTzIg LWZvbWl0LWZyYW1lLXBvaW50ZXIgLUcgMCAtbW5vLWFiaWNhbGxzIC1mbm8t cGljIC1tY3B1PXI0NDAwIC1taXBzMyAgLU0gKi5bY1NdID4gLmRlcGVuZA0K L2Jpbi9zaDogbWlwcy1saW51eGdjYzogIG5vdCBmb3VuZA0KZ21ha2VbMV06 ICoqKiBbZGVwXSBFcnJvciAxMjcNCmdtYWtlWzFdOiBMZWF2aW5nIGRpcmVj dG9yeSBgL3Vzci9saW51eC91c3Ivc3JjL2xpbnV4LTIuMC4yMS9hcmNoL21p cHMvYm9vdCcNCmdtYWtlOiAqKiogW2FyY2hkZXBdIEVycm9yIDINCmJhc2gt Mi4wMCMgZ21ha2UgTEFOR1VBR0U9YyBDUk9TU19DT01QSUxFPW1pcHMtbGlu dXggQ09ORklHX1NIRUxMPS91c3IvZ251L2Jpbi8NCmJhc2gNCmdtYWtlWzFd OiBFbnRlcmluZyBkaXJlY3RvcnkgYC91c3IvbGludXgvdXNyL3NyYy9saW51 eC0yLjAuMjEvYXJjaC9taXBzL2Jvb3QnDQptaXBzLWxpbnV4Z2NjIC1EX19L RVJORUxfXyAtSS91c3IvbGludXgvdXNyL3NyYy9saW51eC9pbmNsdWRlIC1F IC1XYWxsIC1Xc3RyaWN0LXByb3RvdHlwZXMgLU8yIC1mb21pdC1mcmFtZS1w b2ludGVyIC1HIDAgLW1uby1hYmljYWxscyAtZm5vLXBpYyAtbWNwdT1yNDQw MCAtbWlwczMgIC1NICouW2NTXSA+IC5kZXBlbmQNCi9iaW4vc2g6IG1pcHMt bGludXhnY2M6ICBub3QgZm91bmQNCmdtYWtlWzFdOiAqKiogW2RlcF0gRXJy b3IgMTI3DQpnbWFrZVsxXTogTGVhdmluZyBkaXJlY3RvcnkgYC91c3IvbGlu dXgvdXNyL3NyYy9saW51eC0yLjAuMjEvYXJjaC9taXBzL2Jvb3QnDQpnbWFr ZTogKioqIFthcmNoZGVwXSBFcnJvciAyDQpiYXNoLTIuMDAjIGV4aXQNCnJv b3QgIyBsb2dvdXQNCkNvbm5lY3Rpb24gY2xvc2VkLg0KDQo= ---1072019431-1385156519-883017932=:1224 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=hinver Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Q1BVOiBNSVBTIFI0MDAwIFByb2Nlc3NvciBDaGlwIFJldmlzaW9uOiAzLjAN CkZQVTogTUlQUyBSNDAwMCBGbG9hdGluZyBQb2ludCBDb3Byb2Nlc3NvciBS ZXZpc2lvbjogMC4wDQoxIDEwMCBNSFogSVAyMCBQcm9jZXNzb3INCk1haW4g bWVtb3J5IHNpemU6IDQ4IE1ieXRlcw0KU2Vjb25kYXJ5IHVuaWZpZWQgaW5z dHJ1Y3Rpb24vZGF0YSBjYWNoZSBzaXplOiAxIE1ieXRlIG9uIFByb2Nlc3Nv ciAwDQpJbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBjYWNoZSBzaXplOiA4IEtieXRlcw0KRGF0YSBj YWNoZSBzaXplOiA4IEtieXRlcw0KSW50ZWdyYWwgU0NTSSBjb250cm9sbGVy IDA6IFZlcnNpb24gV0QzM0M5M0IsIHJldmlzaW9uIEMNCiAgRGlzayBkcml2 ZTogdW5pdCAxIG9uIFNDU0kgY29udHJvbGxlciAwDQogIERpc2sgZHJpdmU6 IHVuaXQgMiBvbiBTQ1NJIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgMA0KT24tYm9hcmQgc2VyaWFs IHBvcnRzOiAyDQpPbi1ib2FyZCBiaS1kaXJlY3Rpb25hbCBwYXJhbGxlbCBw b3J0DQpHcmFwaGljcyBib2FyZDogR1IyLVhTMjQgd2l0aCBaLWJ1ZmZlcg0K SW50ZWdyYWwgRXRoZXJuZXQ6IGVjMCwgdmVyc2lvbiAxDQpJcmlzIEF1ZGlv IFByb2Nlc3NvcjogcmV2aXNpb24gMTANCg0K ---1072019431-1385156519-883017932=:1224-- From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Wed Dec 24 20:35:15 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id UAA669581 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:35:15 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA21423 for linux-list; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:26:28 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA21418 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:26:26 -0800 Received: from localhost.localdomain (usr-15.syr.axess.net [205.247.138.215]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id UAA12017 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:26:25 -0800 env-from (delznic@acm.org) Received: from localhost (delznic@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA09585; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:25:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: delznic owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 23:25:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Douglas F. Elznic" X-Sender: delznic@localhost Reply-To: delznic@acm.org To: delznic@acm.org cc: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Hate to bring this up again... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 325 Lines: 10 A long time ago we talked about the N64 and related things. I posted a link that had a lot of info I need now for other things. I can no longer find this lnk are there any archives of this list? -- Douglas F. Elznic delznic@acm.org "If they give you lined paper, write the other way." Freedom through Electronic Resistance From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 29 11:17:36 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA980459 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:17:36 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA09321 for linux-list; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:16:54 -0800 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA09308 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:16:52 -0800 Received: from athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (athena.nuclecu.unam.mx [132.248.29.9]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA22572 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:16:50 -0800 env-from (miguel@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by athena.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03554; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:13:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:13:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199712291913.NAA03554@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx> From: Miguel de Icaza To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Subject: Linux and the Titanic movie. X-Windows: A terminal disease. Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1093 Lines: 34 Hello guys, The computer graphics for the "Titanic" movie were done with SGI/Irix machines and about 105 Linux/Alpha hosts running Red Hat 4.1, there is an article covering this on: http://www.linuxjournal.com/current/2494.html There are two interesting points in the article that may be interesting for people inside SGI trying to convince management that supporting Linux on the SGI hardware is a good thing: 1. They choose Linux on the Alpha over Windows NT and Digital OSF because: - Windows NT was not complete for them. - Digital Unix license was pretty expensive and did not have ways to talk to the Windows NT servers. 2. They did not choose to use SGI hardware because it was expensive. Probably what is expensive is getting all the toys they required: NFS server/client/automouter which are expensive under IRIX. It may be worth talking to the authors of the article at this company to see if they would have bought SGI hardware if they had a chance to run Linux on it. Best wishes, Miguel. From owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Dec 29 13:09:44 1997 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (970903.SGI.8.8.7/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA990871 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:09:44 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA03186 for linux-list; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:08:04 -0800 Received: from oz.engr.sgi.com (oz.engr.sgi.com [150.166.61.27]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA03173 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:08:03 -0800 Received: (from ariel@localhost) by oz.engr.sgi.com (971110.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA21648 for linux@engr.sgi.com; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:08:03 -0800 (PST) From: ariel@oz.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Message-Id: <199712292108.NAA21648@oz.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Donating Hardware (fwd) To: linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI/Linux mailing list) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:08:03 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (Ariel Faigon) Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1279 Lines: 42 [just forwarding an email I got] If there's anyone in the NJ area who is interested in some old hardware donation, feel free to contact Beth directly. ----- Forwarded message from bunnies@panix.com ----- >From bunnies@panix.com Fri Dec 19 05:22:37 1997 From: bunnies@panix.com Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:22:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712191322.IAA02921@panix2.panix.com> To: ariel@sgi.com X-URL: http://www.linux.sgi.com/ X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.7.1f X-Personal_name: Elizabeth Coates Subject: Donating Hardware HI, I am at Schering-Plough. We have an old power series with a 2 cpu board (questionable board). I think it's a 4d/440. I noticed that you would like to extend the port to r3000 cpus and wondered if you would like this. Here are the catches. Corporate doesn't want to donate to other than academic. They might have to come to NJ to get it. So, if there are any porters at a school that can accept donated hardware and they wouldn't mind picking it up in Kenilworth NJ (just south of Newark) I will start the long LART-ish process of donation. We also have a sun 4/360 that they can probably take too. Happy Holidays!!!! --Beth Coates 1-908-298-6651 (daytime) ----- End of forwarded message from bunnies@panix.com ----- -- Peace, Ariel