Subject: Re: installation problem.

From: Mike Shaver <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:18:28 -0800

Ulf Carlsson wrote:
> It's also very strange that the kernel doesn't detect my scsi harddrives
> correctly (I have reported these error messages earlier). I tested fx, and
> fx detected them correctly. I get the same error with my orginal sgi
> harddrive which obviously works, since irix doesn't have any problems with
> it.

Oh...is that drive SCSI id 7?  I had problems with one of my drives
(which was happy under IRIX) until I changed the id to something other
than 7.
 
> I'll take a look in the kernel source and try to figure out what's causing
> that kernel paging error.

You want to run mips-linux-objdump to get a function+offset (or, if that
kernel was compiled -g, line number info) for the fault, and then we can
try to debug it.

Mike

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:09:06 +0100 (CET)

> But, there are .72 binaries in:
> ftp://ftp.linux.sgi.com/pub/test/

Sorry it's my fault (my big fool). Assumed all the .tar.gz files were
sources, forgot checking the sizes.

Well, the .72 binary didn't boot at all. I got "black screen". But .67
gets atleast so far that it mounts my root filesystem (over nfs). But
directly after that I recieve these errors (same as under .55, but this
kernel prints the message more than one time):

Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 000013f0, epc ==
8803ff14, ra == 88040680
Aiee, killing interrupt handler

That message is printed out about ten times with different
values for epc and ra and virtual address.
Do you have any idea what's causing this mess?

/Ulf Carlsson

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:00:54 +0100 (CET)

> (which was happy under IRIX) until I changed the id to something other

No, one drive is at id 4 and one at id 6.

Have I forgot to do something? I used the Disk Manager from the menu to
partition my scsi drive. Then I used mke2fs /dev/dsk/dks0d6s7. Is that the
corrected procedure?

> kernel was compiled -g, line number info) for the fault, and then we can

Is mips-linux-objdump in the binutils package?

/Ulf Carlsson

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:41:26 +0100 (CET)

Hello again.

I'm getting pretty tired. No progress at all. Is my configuration special
in any way?

System: IP22
Processor: 100 Mhz R4000, with FPU
Primary I-cache size: 8 kbytes
Primary d-cache size: 8 kbytes
Secondary cache size: 1024 Kbytes
Memory size: 32 Mbytes
Graphics: Indy 8-bit
SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(4)
SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(6)

Are not all indys almost identical? It's very strange IMO that .72 hangs
before it prints anything on the screen. I think I've tested almost
everything by now.

Those harddrive problems don't matter right now. It's possible to run over
nfs so.. it's the kernel paging error which is the problem.

I am not blaming you SGI/Linux developers for creating a bad system in any
way. It would have been really nice if it worked :)

What will I do?

/Ulf Carlsson

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:39:54 +0100 (CET)

On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Mike Shaver wrote:

> Oh...is that drive SCSI id 7?

They were 4 (irix) and 6 (linux) before, but I've changed them to 2 and
5 now. No difference.

/Ulf Carlsson

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:53:00 +0100

> Secondary cache size: 1024 Kbytes

So this must be a R4000SC CPU.  The CPU support code for it is buggy, that's
why it it's working.

Fixes probably coming next week; as think are looking I'll have a hell lot
of time again by then.

  Ralf

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:47:48 +0100 (CET)

> So this must be a R4000SC CPU.  The CPU support code for it is buggy, that's

It's _not_ working. And I would like to know why it isn't working.  (ok, I
understand what you mean, sorry :)  Well, this is not a big problem for me
anyway. The .68 kernel works. The main problem is the one with the
harddrives (detecting them, but with the size of 0Mb, and the kernel can't
read the partition tables), and the one with the kernel paging request it
can't handle. Any ideas? 

> Fixes probably coming next week; as think are looking I'll have a hell lot

Great, next week.. (feels like one year).

/Ulf Carlsson.

-----------------------------------------
-     grimsy - http://grimsy.ml.org     -
-----------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:25:53 +0100

> It's _not_ working. And I would like to know why it isn't working.  (ok, I

The exact bug is that one of the cache maintenance routines in
include/asm-mips/r4kcache.h uses there wrong cachop for flushing the
cache.

> anyway. The .68 kernel works. The main problem is the one with the
           
.68 isn't supposed to work.  The memory is laid out such that the buggy
cache routine has a bit less of effect.

> read the partition tables), and the one with the kernel paging request it

Should all be the cache effect.

> Great, next week.. (feels like one year).

Next week starts tonite.  Linux/MIPS industries going back online ...

  Ralf  (Getting coffee and milk ...)

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:42:15 +0100 (CET)

> include/asm-mips/r4kcache.h uses there wrong cachop for flushing the

Oh.

> cache routine has a bit less of effect.

Hm, ok. But why is .68 on ftp.linux.sgi.com if it doesn't work, or isn't
even supposed to work?

> Should all be the cache effect.

Doesn't it work for your?

I have some questions concerning the MIPS/Linux project. I think the FAQ
on the homepage is obsolete (sorry, you must have answered these questions
100 times by now :)

Is it possible to use MIPS/Linux yet, or is it too buggy? How much of the
X code is done? Are any of the SGI special devices, such as the cool
functions on the video card supported yet? Which kernel runs
linux.sgi.com (this one seems to be quite stable).

Maybe I'll join the project (if you allow me to). I don't know if I have
the time right now, quite busy programming for a demo project.

/Ulf Carlsson

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:57:59 +0100

> Hm, ok. But why is .68 on ftp.linux.sgi.com if it doesn't work, or isn't

It's only supposed to fail for your configuration.

> Doesn't it work for your?

Since I'm doing the thing it will always work for my hardware (hint, hint ...)

> Is it possible to use MIPS/Linux yet, or is it too buggy? How much of the

It's good for month of uptime.  Some apps are not that reliable.

> functions on the video card supported yet? Which kernel runs

Linux supports what god wanted to be supported, text mode :-)

> linux.sgi.com (this one seems to be quite stable).

It's called IRIX :-)

(And yes, the machine had over half a year uptime.  The IRIX developers on
the list will apreciate your praise :-)

  Ralf

---

From: Alex deVries <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:17:28 -0500 (EST)

> Hm, ok. But why is .68 on ftp.linux.sgi.com if it doesn't work, or isn't

Really, because we're not making a very big point of ensuring that the ftp
site is up to date and accurate.  Same with the FAQ.  Yes, we should do a
better job at this, feel free to help out.

> Doesn't it work for your?

Definitely.  Alex3.med.iacnet.com works very well, and it really doesn't
every crash.  Certainly some of it could use some work (like partitioning,
modules, X, etc), but glibc, networking, etc are all there.

> X code is done? Are any of the SGI special devices, such as the cool

Miguel?  What's up with X exactly?  Are you short on hw specs?

- Alex

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:21:32 +0100

> Miguel?  What's up with X exactly?  Are you short on hw specs?

It's more that days tend to have only 48 hours ...

  Ralf

---

From: Alex deVries <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:23:04 -0500 (EST)

> It's more that days tend to have only 48 hours ...

Oh.  Uh, any parts that I can help out on?  I appear to have a weekend
free now.

- Alex

---

From: Miguel de Icaza <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:35:29 -0600

> linux.sgi.com (this one seems to be quite stable).

There is little code for the free X11 server written.  I can send my
bits to whoever wants them (they are based on what the kernel supports
for the IRIX X emulation, so we will end up supporting a scheme very
similar to what the IRIX X server has).

Miguel.

---

From: Miguel de Icaza <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:47:59 -0600

> Miguel?  What's up with X exactly?  Are you short on hw specs?

No.  I am short on time.

I am rushing for a beta release of the gnome desktop thingie and until
then I am pretty busy.

For those who do not know: gnome is a user-friendly desktop that aims
at easing the usage of Unix computers.

Gnome provides a user friendly desktop, and aims at providing a
component framework for building large applications (components
modeled pretty much after microsoft's active-x, but we are using CORBA
for gluing stuff together instead of COM).  For more information
check: http://www.gnome.org and feel free to contribute to the
effort. 

Back to the X server: here is the status: the X server starts up on my
machine very happilly, but crashes the kernel sometime when clients
connect.  Not all clients crash the kernel, just some of them (if you
run an xterm or emacs you will crash the kernel). 

These are remote applications, so it is a fault in the Xserver support
in the kernel.  This happens in graphics mode, so if the kernel is
printing out a nice panic message, it never reaches the screen. 

What should be done to debug this is: inside panic() we need to
restore text mode manually (trivial to figure out from the sources,
there is some routine there) and figure out where the crash happened. 

Now, what might make debugging this a pain is that you require the
an Indy that is configured just like mine :-), as when I was doing the
X server code, I rushed to hardcode the inventory return code to
whatever my machine had, so you better have a newport that supports
24-bpp or you need to change the inventory bits (or better yet, fix
the inventory code) :-).

Getting the X server to run is trivial: just strace your X server in
IRIX and copy all of the files that are refereced by the X server.

Then create the special files in /dev with the major/minors that are
documented in the kernel and voila!

best gnoming wishes, 
Miguel.

---

From: [email-masked] (Ariel Faigon)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:28:37 -0800 (PST)

:
:On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 [email-masked] wrote:
:
:> .68 isn't supposed to work.  The memory is laid out such that the buggy
:> cache routine has a bit less of effect.
:
:Hm, ok. But why is .68 on ftp.linux.sgi.com if it doesn't work, or isn't
:even supposed to work?
:
We really need someone who runs linux and understands the details
to clean up the web site and make sure the FAQ is current and
the precompiled kernels are stable and those that are bad
are deleted etc.

If you vounteer, please send me your ssh public key and I
give you an account on *.linux.sgi.com in no time  :-)

:
:I have some questions concerning the MIPS/Linux project. I think the FAQ
:on the homepage is obsolete (sorry, you must have answered these questions
:100 times by now :)
:
:Is it possible to use MIPS/Linux yet, or is it too buggy? How much of the
:X code is done? Are any of the SGI special devices, such as the cool
:functions on the video card supported yet? Which kernel runs
:linux.sgi.com (this one seems to be quite stable).
:
Linux on SGI Indy's is quite stable once it boots.  We have about
five or so users that use it daily as their development platform.
We seem to have some problems with some HW configs but not enough
installed base to figure all this out.  Maybe now that Ralf is
back we may see some progress.  Ralf is an amazing MIPS and Linux
hacker, we probably need someone else who is less of a hacker but
more of a documenter to take charge of the web site.

:Maybe I'll join the project (if you allow me to). I don't know if I have
:the time right now, quite busy programming for a demo project.
:
You'll be blessed if you join.

-- 
Peace, Ariel

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:21:14 +0100 (CET)

> give you an account on *.linux.sgi.com in no time  :-)

Well, I could done that. I have only one programming project right now and
this isn't even programming, just writing a FAQ and updating a homepage. 
There are still some reasons why I can't help you with this right now: 

1. I know almost nothing about MIPS/Linux. Well, as soon as it boots for
   me will I study all its advantages and disadvantages.
2. My internet connection is not very fast. Only modem at home. Well, I
   have a faster connection at school, but you know. Serving a ftp
   with 10mb kernels is not a job for me. (well, I may take charge of the
   www site some day in the (near?) future).

> five or so users that use it daily as their development platform.
Developing MIPS/Linux or developing something else?
How many MIPS/Linux are there right now? 10? 50? 100?

> more of a documenter to take charge of the web site.
How many coders are there for MIPS/Linux, just Ralf?

> You'll be blessed if you join.
As I said I have to install the funky shit first of all. :-)

- grimsy

---

From: [email-masked] (Ariel Faigon)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:23:09 -0800 (PST)

:
:> Linux on SGI Indy's is quite stable once it boots.  We have about
:> five or so users that use it daily as their development platform.
:Developing MIPS/Linux or developing something else?
:How many MIPS/Linux are there right now? 10? 50? 100?
:
I would assume around 10... but I don't know for sure, really.
There have been many more downloads.  We are still virtual console
(no X) dependent and a few Indy devices (such as sound) are not
supported.

:> We seem to have some problems with some HW configs but not enough
:> installed base to figure all this out.  Maybe now that Ralf is
:> back we may see some progress.  Ralf is an amazing MIPS and Linux
:> hacker, we probably need someone else who is less of a hacker but
:> more of a documenter to take charge of the web site.
:How many coders are there for MIPS/Linux, just Ralf?
:
Ralf, Miguel, Mike Shaver, Alex deVries, Thomas Bogendoerfer,
Alan Cox.  There have been a few more in the past, but most have
a real job too so they are working on this on and off...

-- 
Peace, Ariel

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:34:10 +0100 (CET)

> a real job too so they are working on this on and off...

So, how do you get money if you don't have a job?

- grimsy

---

From: [email-masked] (Alan Cox)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:23:41 +0000 (GMT)

> a real job too so they are working on this on and off...

SGIwise Im sort of stuck at the moment waiting for things to appear. If someone
can get me/email me the PS/2 mouse docs for the indy I'll attack that if
Miguel is still having it lock up on him

---

From: Michael Hill <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:35:01 -0500

> So, how do you get money if you don't have a job?

If someone would post a response to the list, I could free up some time with 
two weeks' notice.

Mike
-- 
Michael Hill
Toronto, Canada
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:49:21 +0100

> Miguel is still having it lock up on him

Basically the Indy PS/2 hardware is the same as on PCs, it's just that both
mouse and keyboard are using the same interrupt and we therefore need some
special magic.  When cleaning up in the keyboard driver I somehow lost the
PS/2 magic stuff that calls aux_interrupt().  Old CVS kernel versions
should have that stuff still in the keyboard code.

  Ralf

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:53:50 +0100

> If someone would post a response to the list, I could free up some time with 

The MIPS embedded market is large enough to give you a living on the base
of Linux/MIPS.  I wouldn't dare to say that about the Linux for SGI market
yet ...  The big problem is just finding the initial customers.  Living on
the base of Linux is however getting easier and easier.  About half of my
income the last year was based directly or indirectly on Linux and it's
getting more.  And yes, it's good enough to afford non-rusty cars ;-)

  Ralf

---

From: Ulf Carlsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:48:57 +0100 (CET)

Are SGI/Linux and Linux/MIPS two different projects?

- grimsy

---

From: Alex deVries <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:09:47 -0500 (EST)

> Are SGI/Linux and Linux/MIPS two different projects?

I think the answer is "sort of".

Certainly the software ports for various MIPS architectures are similiar,
including the kernel.  SGI/Linux is really just an instance of big endian
MIPS/Linux. 

The value added in SGI Linux is that there's a company standing somewhat
behind it, offering help with some of the SGI-specific issues.

- Alex

---

From: Alex deVries <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:13:54 -0500 (EST)

>    www site some day in the (near?) future).

That's where SGI comes in nicely, providing us all with ftp.linux.sgi.com.

I actually have some unfinished HOWTO docs you're welcome to have, but the
problem with them is that we haven't really realized a viable installation
method yet.  Still gotta get the initrd stuff running...

- Alex