Subject: Linux on O2?

From: Bruce Leggett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:52:52 -0600

Hello,

How many folks are actually out there working on the Linux on mips port?

Is there any work going on towards running Linux on the O2 specifically?

cheers,
bruce

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From: brett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:14:25 -0800 (PST)

Im still wainting to hear anything about the indigo i hear alot of talk
about the indigo2 but nothing about the original blue boxes

-----------------------------------------------
brett wagner	|	[email-masked]
get committed!	|	http://www.madhouse.org
-----------------------------------------------

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From: Ralf Baechle <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 03:53:35 +0100

> about the indigo2 but nothing about the original blue boxes

The problem is that the origin docs are gone by now and SGI can't
just go and ship the IRIX source to hackers ...

  Ralf

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From: "William J. Earl" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:32:44 -0800 (PST)

> about the indigo2 but nothing about the original blue boxes
...

      The original Indigo was R3000-based.  The I/O is an earlier generation
of that used in Indy and Indigo2, so some of the driver work could be reused,
but it is hard to find documentation at this point.  The Indigo R4000
is pretty close to Indy and Indigo2, so it would not be too hard.  On the
other hand, there is no work done so far on supporting the "starter" graphics
on the Indigo R4000.

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From: brett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:42:25 -0800 (PST)

well all i care about is the R4000 indigos with "elan" graphics.  i just
happen to have a couple of them kicking around the shop.

b

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From: brett <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:13:11 -0800 (PST)

why not put a couple of hackers under nda and ship them the source.

b

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From: "William J. Earl" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:32:57 -0800 (PST)

> just go and ship the IRIX source to hackers ...

      We might be able to help out with some Indigo R4000 information,
if someone is seriously interested, since the Indigo R4000 is close to
Indigo2 and Indy.  Indigo R3000 is probably hopeless (that development
project was something like 12 years ago, after all).  The graphics is
a tougher problem, since all but Newport and Starter (Indigo) graphics
have geometry engines with relatively complex interfaces.  

     Ralf is quite right about the IRIX source.  Since it is based
on source licensed from SCO, Sun, and others, we do not have the right
to hand it out without cost to others.

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From: Ralf Baechle <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 01:03:31 +0100

> to hand it out without cost to others.  

How about if myself and possibly others who currently are under NDA for SGI
would support such projects by describing things via email where
neither docs nor uncontaminated source is available and possibly some
source where it's (C)-clean and managment aproved.  Could something like
that be made working?  It's a shame that still nobody so far has had an
actual chance to start working on an O2 port or something like that.

  Ralf

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From: "William J. Earl" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:42:50 -0800 (PST)

Ralf Baechle writes:
...
 > actual chance to start working on an O2 port or something like that.

       That should be ok; we have approval to do so (and I have
sometimes supplied information on that basis), at least for Indigo, Indigo2,
Indy, and Origin.  (There was some question about Octane and Onyx, especially
in regard to graphics.)  

       If someone is seriously interested in doing an O2 port, I will help
with explanations of the major issues, and we can make documentation available
under the same restrictions as Indy documentation (no redistribution, no
warranty, documentation is known to be inaccurate in various details).  
As I have described earlier, however, an O2 port is a major undertaking.
(It would be quite an interesting and challenging project, but it is
not simple.)

       Again, Indigo documentation, except via the method Ralf suggests,
is going to be hard to come by.  The O2 documentation, albeit somewhat
inaccurate, is on the other hand readily available.

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From: Marc Esipovich <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:30:22 -0200 (GMT+2)

> just go and ship the IRIX source to hackers ...

Wow, what do you mean gone by now?  are you saying there's no chance in
hell to obtain the documentation?  it can't be gone.

	Marc.

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From: Harald Koerfgen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:29:46 +0100 (MET)

> actual chance to start working on an O2 port or something like that.

Well, if someone is willing to ship me an O2 I'll see what I can do :-)

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Regards,
Harald

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From: "Brian D. Moffet" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:00:00 -0800

>Well, if someone is willing to ship me an O2 I'll see what I can do :-)

I own an O2, and would be willing to work on a port, once my life gets more
free
time... :-)  Of course I would need to get as much hardware doc as possible,
but my time isn't gonna free up for at least another 6 - 9 months, probably 
longer...

Brian

Brian D. Moffet		www.moffetimages.com
[email-masked]	photographer, pilot, musician, programmer

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From: Ralf Baechle <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:14:45 +0100

> hell to obtain the documentation?  it can't be gone.

Remember that SGI is a company that designs a large fraction of a system.
So the designers of some piece of hardware and it's direct users, the
kernel programmers have close to each other.  For a lot of chips
documentation never is written or at least never the same way so it would
be the case for chips that would be marketed as such.  It's obvious that
this isn't good at all for Free Software where the access to high
quality documentation is crucial.

So now imagine what has happened to all the knowledge about a machine
during the decade after it was developed?  The product's development
finishes, it get's marketed, the OS for gets some final bugfixes and
even later it gets phased out.  Silence.  Meanwhile the brains behind
the machine leave the company, tapes and paper go to some dark room
where nobody still remembers them and the machine gets forgotten.

Slow death of a computer ...

  Ralf

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From: Geert Uytterhoeven <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:11:19 +0100 (CET)

> Slow death of a computer ...

Unrelated, but similar: I'd like to port Linux/m68k to the Tektronix XP21
X-terminal I have. It has a 68030, TMS34020 and NE2000 Ethernet, but where do
you find docs? Tektronix has sold their X-terminal division to NCD.

If a machine is older than the web, AltaVista won't help you neither.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

						Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- Linux/{m68k~Amiga,PPC~CHRP} -- [email-masked]

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
							    -- Linus Torvalds

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From: Ralf Baechle <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:05:14 +0100

>From time to time I get email from people with ancient 68k-based SGIs
asking for Linux ...

  Ralf

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From: Richard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:32:13 +0100

> >From time to time I get email from people with ancient 68k-based SGIs

I've still got an iris 3030 which is an 68k based SGI.

geert: It's even located in belgium :)

Richard

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From: Ralf Baechle <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:03:02 +0100

> geert: It's even located in belgium :)

That was a failure.  Somebody will ring your door bell tonight :-)

  Ralf

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From: Richard <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:44:19 +0100

> That was a failure.  Somebody will ring your door bell tonight :-)

I'd be delighted :)